foone

foone OP , vor 7 Tagen

because I see a lot of people approaching automation from this attitude of "software/sites should have APIs so that users can write software to automate it!"
and while that's not wrong, exactly, it's also not the attitude I think makes the most sense, you know?

We do not ask for access. We don't need to get permission to be able to automate our tasks.

foone OP , vor 7 Tagen

There is always API 0: acting like a human/browser/user.

The first API is "fuck you I'm doing it anyway". Any additional API the program provides is merely a helpful shortcut

foone OP , vor 7 Tagen

You see the point of this a lot in API design, where a company is like "okay we made an API but we limited it a bunch because we are scared about cheaters/bots/scrapers/whatever", while the things they limit are things a user clicking links can do in 2 seconds.

foone OP , vor 7 Tagen

like, if your API doesn't provide me a follow_user() call, but the user can follow anyone by clicking one link?

Your lack of a follow_user() call is not going to stop me. I'm just going to click the link, automatically.
Having an API 1.0 doesn't mean API 0 goes away.

foone OP , vor 7 Tagen

And I think this is an under-discussed part of automation because it's associated with spammers and such, but they're only one possible user of this. By making it better known it can get used for more legitimate uses

foone OP , vor 7 Tagen

The basic philosophy of adversarial automation is that the software/website is the enemy.

foone OP , vor 7 Tagen

You don't control it, so it can't be consider an ally in this automation.

foone OP , vor 7 Tagen

I'm talking less like "you're in a constant arms race with the people maintaining the official API as they try to stop your spamming" and more like "Your lab depends on this program from 1996 and there's no updates and no way to automate it"

foone OP , vor 7 Tagen

and the answer is really that of course you can automate it. Stick it in a VM, OCR the screens, inject your own DLLs, puppet the keyboard and mouse!

foone OP , vor 7 Tagen

my point is that every program, every website, DOES expose an API, you just need to know how to best use that API.

That API being "the access they provide for humans"

foone OP , vor 7 Tagen

For websites this is forms and links. For desktop applications this is buttons and windows and keyboards.

foone OP , vor 7 Tagen

And I think (in part because it's affiliated with Bad Actors like spammers), a lot of programmers don't consider all their options in these areas.

foone OP , vor 7 Tagen

And that's really a shame. Computers should be used to automate things. We spend way too much time dealing with shitty sites and shitty programs because we have no choice and think we can't automate them away.

foone OP , vor 7 Tagen

well, that's wrong. We can absolutely automate them, it just takes a little more work and some different strategies

foone OP , vor 7 Tagen

I think of this as a short term vs long term thinking sort of problem. Like, a lot of programmers are stuck in the "should" part of thinking about programs and sites.

Yes, the program SHOULD be open source, so you can just fix the UI. Yes, the website SHOULD have an extensive API so you can easily automate it.

foone OP , vor 7 Tagen

I agree with all that!

but... it doesn't.

foone , vor 7 Tagen

@Riedler @domi yeah I don't think there is. I should add one!

It's pronounced like goon. I usually say "like spoon" or "the second syllable of typhoon" because of... connotations with "goon".

foone , vor 8 Tagen

@DotMaetrix hi

foone OP , vor 8 Tagen

@shanecelis this keyboard only has 11 keys so I have fewer problems

foone OP , vor 8 Tagen

@mia oh wow, that's cute!

foone OP , vor 7 Tagen

@ljrk I highly recommend giving it a try! keyboards are very simple to design, especially since there's lots of guides out there that can walk you through any of the slightly tricky bits like "where do I put diodes? do I need diodes?"

foone OP , vor 7 Tagen

@ljrk cool! Feel free to @ me if you run into any trouble with it. I am not an expert on making PCBs but I might know enough to point you in the right direction

foone OP , vor 7 Tagen

@Tathar good question! No idea, I've not seen them done that way.

foone OP , vor 8 Tagen

I ran DRC for the first time and hit zero errors.

suspicious...

foone OP , vor 8 Tagen

@grumpasaurus yeah I was using a CRT until like 2006-2007.

foone OP , vor 8 Tagen

@ehurtley THAT'S CHEATING

foone , vor 8 Tagen

@timixretroplays yeah. Totally normal in my experience

foone , vor 8 Tagen

@timixretroplays @vxo you can't stop me wearing floppy disks!

foone OP , vor 8 Tagen

@barubary I used to work for 4chan. I was one of the ones handing out the B&

foone OP , vor 8 Tagen

@bennomatic yeah! I had it on a Packard Bell running Windows 3.1. I remember the quicktime component hosed my windows install at least once!

foone OP , vor 8 Tagen

I've got some screenshots of some Riven assets opened in old versions of SoftImage. I'm checking to see if it's okay to post those.

foone OP , vor 8 Tagen

@dannotdaniel all I know is what I said here:
https://digipres.club/@foone/112679620985285977

I think they exported from SoftImage|XSI 2015 to something else (maybe straight into Unreal Engine?), but I wasn't involved there so I have no idea.

foone OP , vor 8 Tagen

@neckspike I mean, it certainly worked, so I guess that proves it was a good idea!

foone OP , vor 8 Tagen

@dannotdaniel @neckspike heh. although it's pretty easy to find foone, that punk is everywhere

foone OP , vor 8 Tagen

I got permission. Here's my first attempt: This is that 5-way rotating room near the start of the game, and I was able to open it in SoftImage 3D version 3.7 (in an XP VM). This is a version from 1997, so probably close to the original version they used to make the game.

foone OP , vor 8 Tagen

I believe that was mainly for verification that I could open the files at all. Next I moved forward a few versions, up to SoftImage 3D 4.0, the last version before the SoftImage|XSI rebrand.

foone OP , vor 8 Tagen

Then I moved to SoftImage|XSI 1.5. This version couldn't open the project, but I was able to make a new project and individually import the scenes/objects/textures/etc. This version is apparently a complete rewrite of the codebase, so it's a much more modern version of SoftImage.

foone OP , vor 8 Tagen

And after importing into SoftImage|XSI 1.5, I was able to save it out and then open it up in SoftImage 2015, the latest & last edition.

(The 3D views here are blank because of an issue with my VM)

foone OP , vor 8 Tagen

So yeah! that was what I did, and what I gave to Cyan. They needed to import the files into SoftImage|XSI 1.5, then save out that project, then open it in SoftImage 2015. From there they could export into Blender or Unreal or whatever.

foone OP , vor 8 Tagen

@immibis yup!

foone OP , vor 8 Tagen

@JohannaMakesGames that's what VMs are for! The curses are contained. And containered.

foone OP , vor 7 Tagen

@peaceman Turns out they did! it was just delayed.

foone OP , vor 7 Tagen

BTW several people have said like "the least they could have done is sent you a copy of the game!"

They did, after all. It just hadn't come through when I made this thread. Don't worry, I got a free copy from them in thanks!