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brbposting , in Forget it.
Sanctus , in Forget it.
@Sanctus@lemmy.world avatar

When your playing BAR and your busy swipes in front of you and grabs all your mining nodes.

aluminium , in Ad blocker blocker blocker blocker…..

God I love the web platform!

bruh , in Forget it.

Chile moment

PunnyName , in Forget it.

Fuck your Economic Exclusion Zone

Grass , in We are all gonna die

what is this, a crossover episode?

Rolando , in Forget it.

On the bright side, they save a lot of money on their Coast Guard.

HobbitFoot ,

That's what Peru tried to tell Ecuador.

doubtingtammy ,

I think you mean like Peru and Chile told Bolivia,

HobbitFoot ,

Yeah, probably.

Rolando ,

I think a better summary would be: Chile told Bolivia after Bolivia tried to screw it over on an international treaty, and Bolivia dragged Peru into it. It's an interesting history from many perspectives: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Pacific

Th4tGuyII , in Forget it.
@Th4tGuyII@fedia.io avatar

Alright, fine. You can have a 20 miles, but nothing more. Oh and all the islands around it are still our's.

BarbecueCowboy ,

That's 20km, only about 12 miles.

daniskarma , in Who needs Skynet

So the problem isn't the technology. The problem is unethical big corporations.

NuraShiny ,

Disagree. The technology will never yield AGI as all it does is remix a huge field of data without even knowing what that data functionally says.

All it can do now and ever will do is destroy the environment by using oodles of energy, just so some fucker can generate a boring big titty goth pinup with weird hands and weirder feet. Feeding it exponentially more energy will do what? Reduce the amount of fingers and the foot weirdness? Great. That is so worth squandering our dwindling resources to.

daniskarma ,

Idk. I find it a great coding help. IMO AI tech have legitimate good uses.

Image generation have algo great uses without falling into porn. It ables to people who don't know how to paint to do some art.

NuraShiny ,

Wow, great, the AI is here to defend itself. Working about as well as you'd think.

daniskarma ,

What?

I really don't know whats going about the Anti-AI people. But is getting pretty similar to any other negationism, anti-science, anti-progress... Completely irrational and radicalized.

PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S ,
@PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Disagree. The technology will never yield AGI as all it does is remix a huge field of data without even knowing what that data functionally says.

We definitely don't need AGI for AI technologies to be useful. AI, particularly reinforcement learning, is great for teaching robots to do complex tasks for example. LLMs have shocking ability relative to other approaches (if limited compared to humans) to generalize to "nearby but different, enough" tasks. And once they're trained (and possibly quantized), they (LLMs and reinforcement learning policies) don't require that much more power to implement compared to traditional algorithms. So IMO, the question should be "is it worthwhile to spend the energy to train X thing?" Unfortunately, the capitalists have been the ones answering that question because they can do so at our expense.

For a person without access to big computing resources (me lol), there's also the fact that transfer learning is possible for both LLMs and reinforcement learning. Easiest way to explain transfer learning is this: imagine that I want to learn Engineering, Physics, Chemistry, and Computer Science. What should I learn first so that each subject is easy for me to pick up? My answer would be Math. So in AI speak, if we spend a ton of energy to train an AI to do math and then fine-tune agents to do Physics, Engineering, etc., we can avoid training all the agents from scratch. Fine-tuning can typically be done on "normal" computers with FOSS tools.

all it does is remix a huge field of data without even knowing what that data functionally says.

IMO that can be an incredibly useful approach for solving problems whose dynamics are too complex to reasonably model, with the understanding that the obtained solution is a crude approximation to the underlying dynamics.

IMO I'm waiting for the bubble to burst so that AI can be just another tool in my engineering toolkit instead of the capitalists' newest plaything.

Sorry about the essay, but I really think that AI tools have a huge potential to make life better for us all, but obviously a much greater potential for capitalists to destroy us all so long as we don't understand these tools and use them against the powerful.

NaibofTabr ,

Same as it ever was...

explodicle ,

This has been going on since big oil popularized the "carbon footprint". They want us arguing with each other about how useful crypto/AI/whatever are instead of agreeing about pigouvian energy taxes and socialized control of the (already monopolized) grid.

HawlSera ,

Always has been

pyre ,

depends. for "AI" "art" the problem is both terms are lies. there is no intelligence and there is no art.

lauha ,

Define art.

pyre ,

i won't, but art has intent. AI doesn't.

Pollock's paintings are art. a bunch of paint buckets falling on a canvas in an earthquake wouldn't make art, even if it resembled Pollock's paintings. there's no intent behind it. no artist.

lauha ,

How can you tell if an entity has intent or not?

pyre ,

comes with having a brain and knowing what intent means.

lauha ,

Yes, but where do you draw a line in AI of having an intent. Surely AGI has intent but you say current AIs do not.

pyre ,

yes because there is no intelligence. AI is a misnomer. intent needs intelligence.

AdrianTheFrog ,
@AdrianTheFrog@lemmy.world avatar

The intent comes from the person who writes the prompt and selects/refines the most fitting image it makes

oatscoop , (Bearbeitet )
@oatscoop@midwest.social avatar

Any work made to convey a concept and/or emotion can be art. I'd throw in "intent", having "deeper meaning", and the context of its creation to distinguish between an accounting spreadsheet and art.

The problem with AI "art" is it's produced by something that isn't sentient and is incapable of original thought. AI doesn't understand intent, context, emotion, or even the most basic concepts behind the prompt or the end result. Its "art" is merely a mashup of ideas stolen from countless works of actual, original art run through an esoteric logic network.

AI can serve as a tool to create art of course, but the further removed from the process a human is the less the end result can truly be considered "art".

daniskarma ,

That's like saying photoshop doesn't understand the context and the meaning of art.

"Only physically painted art is art".

Using AI to achieve an concrete piece of art can be pretty complex and surely the artist can create something with an intended meaning with it.

Holyhandgrenade ,
@Holyhandgrenade@lemmy.world avatar

Well said!

GoodEye8 ,

As a thought experiment let's say an artist takes a photo of a sunset. Then the artist uses AI to generate a sunset and AI happens to generate the exact same photo. The artist then releases one of the two images with the title "this may or may not be made by AI". Is the released image art or not?

If you say the image isn't art, what if it's revealed that it's the photo the artist took? Does is magically turn into art because it's not made by AI? If not does it mean when people "make art" it's not art?

If you say the image is art, what if it's revealed it's made by AI? Does it magically stop being art or does it become less artistic after the fact? Where does value go?

The way I see it is that you're trying to gatekeep art by arbitrarily claiming AI art isn't real art. I think since we're the ones assigning a meaning to art, how it is created doesn't matter. After all if you're the artist taking the photo isn't the original art piece just the natural occurrence of the sun setting. Nobody created it, there is no artistic intention there, it simply exists and we consider it art.

pyre , (Bearbeitet )

there's something's highly suspect about someone not understanding the difference between art made by a human being and some output spit out by a dumb pixel mixer. huge red flag imo.

and yes, the value does go. because we care about origin and intent. that's the whole point.

if the original Mona Lisa were to be sold for millions of dollars, and then someone reveals that it was not the original Mona Lisa but a replica made last week by some dude... do you think the buyer would just go "eh it looks close enough"? no they would sue the fuck out of the seller and guess what, the painting would not be worth millions anymore. it's the same painting. the value is changed. ART IS NOT A PRODUCT.

GoodEye8 ,

there's something's highly suspect about someone not understanding the difference between art made by a human being and some output spit out by a dumb pixel mixer. huge red flag imo.

Translation. I can't argue your point so I'm going to try characters assassination.

if the original Mona Lisa were to be sold for millions of dollars, and then someone reveals that it was not the original Mona Lisa but a replica made last week by some dude... do you think the buyer would just go "eh it looks close enough"? no they would sue the fuck out of the seller and guess what, the painting would not be worth millions anymore. it's the same painting. the value is changed. ART IS NOT A PRODUCT.

Pretty ironic to say art is not a product and then argue that its monetary value would decrease, which can happen only if you treat art as a product.

Imagine if instead of a physical painting Mona Lisa was a digital file and free on the internet, would people think Mona Lisa is less impressive as an art piece because anyone could own it? I think it's artistic value wouldn't decrease, only its value as a product would decrease because everyone could get it for free.

daniskarma , (Bearbeitet )

AI is a tool used by a human. The human using the tools has an intention, wants to create something with it.

It's exactly the same as painting digital art. But instead o moving the mouse around, or copying other images into a collage, you use the AI tool, which can be pretty complex to use to create something beautiful.

Do you know what generative art is? It existed before AI. Surely with your gatekeeping you think that's also no art.

pyre ,

I'm so sick of this. there are scenarios in which so-called "AI" can be used as a tool. for example, resampling. it's dodgy, but whatever, let's say the tech is perfected and it truly analyzes data to give a good result rather than stealing other art to match.

but a tool is something that does exactly what you intend for it to do. you can't say 100 dice are collectively "a tool that outputs 600" because you can sit there and roll them for as long as it takes for all of them to turn up sixes, technically. and if you do call it that, that's still a shitty tool, and you did nothing worth crediting to get 600. a robot can do it. and it does. and that makes it not art.

daniskarma ,

So do you not what generative art is. And you pretend to stablish catedra on art.

Generative art, that existed before even computers, is s form of art in which a algorithm created a form of art, and that algorithm can be repeated easily. Humans can replicate that algorithm, but computers can too, and generative art is mostly used with computers because obvious reasons. Those generative algorithms can be deterministic or non deterministic.

And all this before AI, way before.

AI on its essence is just a really complex and large generative algorithm, that some people do not understand and this are afraid of it, like people used to be afraid of eclipses.

Also, you seems not to know that photographs also take hundreds or thousands of pictures with just pressing a button and just select the good ones.

pyre ,

cameras do not make random images. you know exactly what you're getting with a photograph. the reason you take multiples is mostly for timing and lighting. also, rolling a hundred dice is not the same as painting something 100 times and picking the best one, nor is it like photographing it. the fact that you're even making this comparison is insane.

daniskarma ,

If you know how to use an AI you also know how it's working and what are you going to get, is not random. It's a complex generative algorithm where you put in the initial variables, nothing more.

PolandIsAStateOfMind ,
@PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml avatar

there is no intelligence and there is no art.

People said exact same thing about CGI, and photography before. I wouldn't be surprised if somebody scream "IT'S NOT ART" at Michaelangelo or people carving walls of temples in ancient Egypt.

Umbrias ,

Technology is a cultural creation, not a magic box outside of its circumstances. "The problem isn't the technology, it's the creators, users, and perpetuators" is tautological.

And, importantly, the purpose of a system is what it does.

daniskarma ,

But not al users of AI are malignant or causing environment damage.

Saying the contrary would be a bad generalization.

I have LLM models running on a n100 chip that have less consumption that the lemmy servers we are writing on right now.

Umbrias ,

So you're using a different specific and niche technology (which directly benefits and exists because of) the technology that is the subject of critique, and acting like the subject technology behaves like yours?

"Google is doing a bad with z"

"z can't be bad, I use y and it doesn't have those problems that are already things that happened. In the past. Unchangeable by future actions."

??

daniskarma ,

No. I'm just not fear mongering things I do not understand.

Technology is technology. Most famously nuclear technology can be used both for bombs or giving people the basic need that electricity is.

Rockets can be used as weapons or to deliver spacecraft and do science in space.

Biotechnology can be used both to create and to cure diseases.

A technology is just an applied form of human knowledge. Wanting to ban human progress in any way is the true evilness from my point of view.

Cube6392 ,
@Cube6392@beehaw.org avatar

No one wants to ban technology outright. What we're saying is that the big LLMs are actively harmful to us, humanity. This is not fear mongering. This is just what's happening. OpenAI, Google, Microsoft, and Meta are stealing from humanity at large and setting the planet on fire to do it. For years they told us stealing intellectual property on an individual level was a harmful form of theft. Now they're doing the same kind of theft bit its different now because it benefits them instead of us.

What we are arguing is that this is bad. Its especially extra bad because with the death of big search a piece of critical infrastructure to the internet as we know it is now just simply broken. The open source wonks you celebrate are working on fixing this. But just because someone criticizes big tech does not mean they criticize all tech. The truth is the FAANG companies plus OpenAI and Microsoft are killing our planet for it to only benefit their biggest shareholders

daniskarma ,

I did not believe in Intelectual Property before. I'm not going to start believing now.

The same I think that corporations having a hold on media is bad for humandkind I think that small artists should not have a "not usable by AI"hold on what they post. Sharing knowledge is good for humanity. Limitate who can have access or how they can use that knowledge or culture is bad.

The dead of internet have nothing to do with AI and all to do with leaving internet in hands of a couple big corporations.

As for emissions.. are insignificant relative to other sources of CO2 emissions. Do you happen to eat meat, travel abroad for tourism, watch sports, take you car to work, buy products made overseas? Those are much bigger sources of CO2.

areyouevenreal ,

Technology is a product of science. The facts science seeks to uncover are fundamental universal truths that aren't subject to human folly. Only how we use that knowledge is subject to human folly. I don't think open source or open weights models are a bad usage of that knowledge. Some of the things corporations do are bad or exploitative uses of that knowledge.

kibiz0r ,

Considering most new technology these days is merely a distilation of the ethos of the big corporations, how do you distinguish?

daniskarma ,

Not true though.

Current AI generative have its bases in#
Frank Rosenblatt and other scientists working mostly in universities.

Big corporations had made an implementation but the science behind it already existed. It was not created by those corporations.

10_0 , in Cant have the threat of a good example now can we?

Talking about Australia

MargotRobbie , (Bearbeitet ) in Ad blocker blocker blocker blocker…..
@MargotRobbie@lemm.ee avatar

It's times like these that online advertisements need to get creative to get ahead in this never ending adblocking arms race, just like the very subtle advertisement in the car chase scene in the Academy Award nominated film, "Barbie", now available on Blu-ray and select streaming services.

Foggyfroggy ,

I know right? The other day I was drinking a coke and wondering about side effects of weight loss drugs such as Ozempic, and it occurred to me that advertising could be a lot more creative and subtle.

MargotRobbie ,
@MargotRobbie@lemm.ee avatar

But there is something to be said about superliminal messaging as well.

Instead of trying to subtly influence people to watch your movie, why not tell them directly to watch your movie instead?

CoggyMcFee ,

Forget telling you, they should just start playing the movie and bill you

booly ,

Rick Astley has been doing this for years!

zarathustrad ,

Inside, we both know what's been going on We know the game and we're gonna play it.

iampivot ,

Sneaky upvote!

kubica , in Forget it.

While not having any idea of their history, seeing how they ended up it seems rude to even ask.

Z3k3 ,

I'll be honest. you're better not asking https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakup_of_Yugoslavia

ChaoticNeutralCzech , (Bearbeitet )

They can have a little bit of sea, as a treat(y).

https://sovereignlimits.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2019/04/BIH_HRV_web.jpg

Still, it is completely surrounded by Croatia's claims, and located in the narrow Bay of Mali Ston that Croatia already has a bridge over, so if Bosnians get naughty again they can just turn their sea access into a lake just by dumping enough sand/clay/silt from the existing bridge.

https://banjaluka.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/20160516173547_369738.jpg

Barbarian ,
@Barbarian@sh.itjust.works avatar

They can have a little bit of sea, as a treat(y).

Omfg, this line killed me xD

idegenszavak ,
@idegenszavak@sh.itjust.works avatar

Other 2 answers describe current situation, but the origin is much older. In 1699 Repubublic of Ragusa (now Dubrovnik) ceded Neum to the Ottoman Empire, to prevent land attack from Venice, as Dalmatia was part of Venice that time. Than BiH and Croatia just inherited the borders.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neum#History

FiskFisk33 , in Who needs Skynet

There are some pretty smart/knowledgeable people in the left camp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ziuPUeewK0

JayDee ,

Miles is chill in my book. I appreciate what he is tackling, and hope he continues.

It seems that there are much worse issues with AI systems that are happening right now. I think those issues should be taking precedent over the alignment problem.

Some of the issues are bad enough right now that AI development and use should be banned for a limited time frame (at least 5 years) while we figure out more ethical ways of doing it. The fact that we aren't doing that is a massive failure of our already constantly-fucking-up governments.

Umbrias ,

Plenty of smart people are focused on stupid ideas that are useless in general. Plenty of people who only appear smart also do the same.

dogsoahC , in Cant have the threat of a good example now can we?

Well, at least they made a backup to restore it if something goes wrong.

Mr_Dr_Oink , in We are all gonna die

Then fred takes the mask of the ecto 1 and says it was old man cribbins the whole time. And the ghosts were just sheets on strings. And the gatekeeper was just elitist goth musicians.

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