MapleEngineer , avatar

Is that the same Saudi Arabia that did 9/11?

Transporter_Room_3 , avatar

It sure is great to see all these pinnacles of democracy that work for the betterment of all mankind who are the ones supporting Russia.

All those anti-fascist leaders of progressive countries, with progressive governments, who are clearly urging Russia to cease hostilities...

HootinNHollerin ,

Dictators all stroking eachother off

Doom ,

Desperate. They're licking each other's boots because the resource wars are beginning and they're not in the greatest standing

homesweethomeMrL ,

Hey two of trump’s bestest buddies!

atro_city ,

What does this even mean? I'd like to be able to make a huge debt and then sell it for a profit too. Teach me how 🥺

bacondragonoverlord ,

Well first this doesn't really have anything to do with the article.

But to answer your question:

Be in a situation where your central bank (they can't get bankrupt as they literally print money) doesn't give interest (negative interest even better)

Be big, financially competent and trustworthy enough that no one doubts that you can pay back any loan.

Now people that have too much money and need a convenient place to store that money without too much costs buy your debt for more than what it's worth.


bacondragonoverlord ,

Sorry I somehow forgot the first part of your question.
If I understand correctly they threaten to sell off the debt they hold which will increase the supply of that debt, while at the same time decrease the amount of potential buyers.

To still be able to sell their debt the EU countries now have to (as any country needs a constant influx of money) make the new debt more attractive by offering better interest etc

mwguy ,

At what point will a naked war for resources with Saudi Arabia make sense? Like if a leader went to the EU/America/Japan/Korea and said, "we're gonna take the Saud's oil and sell it for $25/barrel to everyone that helps us for 25 years." And then we went to the public and said, "25 years to get off oil for good" when does that ship?

bacondragonoverlord ,

Welcome to the gulf wars.

mwguy ,

The issue with the Gulf Wars is that we wanted to control the oil resources via local proxy. Honestly, we (the US, I realize this is on the Europe@) could use our Navy to directly control about half of Saudi Arabia's oil and buy ourselves time to get off oil.

bacondragonoverlord ,

Lol welcome to Afghanistan. It's not armies marching in a straight line that will be the problem.

mwguy ,

The Saudis don't have a Navy. About half their reserves and a massive chunk of Iran, Kuwait and the other Gulf State's reserves are in the Gulf. We don't have to set foot on the Peninsula.

bacondragonoverlord ,

Neither does Ukraine. Still decimated the russian navy.

Also to nip this whole "argument" in the bud, and I'm not even going into how terribly colonialistic your proposal is, how many billions of euro would you propose to put into essentially propping up a already dead technology. Fossil fuels have to be eliminated by 2050. Why wage war for something we won't even need in 25 years.

We WANT to increase fossil fuel prices. To hasten the change to renewables, the higher the potential savings the better.

Foni , avatar

The issue is that currently, the cost of extracting oil exceeds $25/barrel. Personally, I would be glad to see the Saud family ousted from Arabia, as there are countless reasons to consign those disgusting Salafists to the dustbin of history. However, reducing the price of oil at this moment is not feasible.

Objection , avatar

Turns out people really don't like being ruled over by nakedly colonialist regimes, and when people really don't like things they tend to blow stuff up, and when people blow stuff up, it hurts the bottom line of oil companies, i.e. the only thing you care about for some reason.

Do you want to create a second Iran? Because that's what happened there.

Mylemmy ,

Typical villains remind me why we are allowing them to monopolize the sporting industry

unexposedhazard ,

Who is WE? Sure as hell not me. Corrupt assholes maybe.

Kyrgizion ,

Do it.

MrMakabar , avatar

So we need the ECB to start QE in a big way to buy back government bonds. However the Saudis do not own too many.

We also have to go electric on transportation and that much much faster. Only a third of the EUs oil comes from the US and Norway. The rest comes from mainly dictatorships. Going green means supporting democracy. Staying on fossil fuels means supporting dictatorships.

jonne ,

Yep, even if you didn't care about the environmental aspect (which you should), not having to rely on dictatorships all over the place for your energy needs should be enough reason to transition away from fossil fuels.

makeasnek , avatar

Glad my money isn't wrapped up in EUR. QE = inflation.

I'm all for going green, it's worth mentioning that having trade with dictatorships is a two-way street, we can also use that trade as leverage to hold them slightly accountable.

MrMakabar , avatar

In this case it gives the Saudis central bank money, which then leads to more money being removed over the coming years. Since the Saudis want to dump it, they have to sell it below market value. Due to that at intresst this means the ECB is moving money out of the monetary system. Hence this is deflationary. We actually saw that in the real world as well. QE meant low intresst rates. The intresst rates shot up as soon as QE was stopped.

meldrik ,

I’m in agreement, but who produces the batteries? China…

MrMakabar , avatar

There are a lot of battery factories being built in the EU right now. Even if they come from China, it is a one time purchase and not a total dependence.

meldrik ,

True, but right now, a lot of the resources come from China. Solar is also something that is mainly from China. EU dropped that ball pretty fast.

cows_are_underrated , (edited )

This might change in the near future some time ago(not to sure how long exactly) I read an Article about a massive ore field of the resources needed for electrical components being discovered in Denmark Sweden.

federalreverse Mod ,

Iirc: For certain materials like Lithium as well as Rare Earths, China basically has a monopoly on processing currently. E.g. with Lithium, Australia and Chile are major sources of the raw materials but virtually all of it is processed in China. Even if the raw materials come from the EU, there may be a major piece of the supply chain missing.

cows_are_underrated ,

Okay, that's fair. I'm not entirely sure but I know that Intel is building a processing plant in Germany. I don't know if they use raw materials, or they also rely on other manufacturers to produce stuff for them.

federalreverse Mod ,

Chip plants are another matter yet again. They usually work with silicon wafers into which they a chip surface.

I don't know where Intel get their materials from either. The silicon processing industry is largely Chinese again—I think Western and Japanese countries do have the appropriate factories and technology too though.

cows_are_underrated ,

I just read, that TSMC also plans on creating a processing plant in Germany(near Dresden) so in the near future we might see chips made entirely in Europe.

lud ,

It was in Sweden. Denmark got jack shit when it comes to natural resources.

cows_are_underrated ,

Thanks. My comment got corrected.

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