From solar to EVs: With China's overproduction and state subsidies, the US and EU are working to ensure that their clean-energy sectors aren't wiped out by unfair competition ( www.dw.com ) Englisch

Linkerbaan , vor 2 Monaten

" We must keep using oil to own the commies "

This article is actual top tier propaganda

honey_im_meat_grinding , vor 2 Monaten

My general/summarized thoughts:

At the end of the day, if we do protectionism and bar China, I can only hope we do enact more subsidies, close if not on par with China, for our own industries so that we accelerate our transition to green energy. I don't really personally care if we ban Chinese products, I just think this is a bit of cope about someone who's just... doing better economic policies, that we should also be doing, instead of crying about "unfair market competition" as if free market absolutism is necessarily good (China isn't doing enough "free market" so they're "unfair", even though we're doing the same to a slightly lesser degree).

My personal preference would be doing what Norway is doing: setting up democratic state run organizations that do green tech so that we socialize the profits we do make from such an industry. That's Norway's approach to hydropower, where they own the vast majority of it, and they're ramping up efforts towards wind energy too. They also have a state oil industry, but obviously I'm not too happy about that in the context of climate change - however, it has been incredibly economically beneficial for the people of Norway, so we should likely copy their strategy for green tech.

Responding to specific paragraphs:

During a trip to China, Yellen said the country's unfair trade practices — dumping artificially cheap products on global markets — were a threat to US businesses and jobs. Washington is considering imposing higher tariffs and closing trade loopholes if Beijing maintains its existing policy.

"Artificially cheap" is basically a loaded term for "subsidized". We do the same thing for certain industries here in Europe, there's really nothing special about it. In fact, we should probably be doing more subsidies.

"Chinese subsidies are pervasive," Rolf Langhammer, former vice president of the Kiel Institute for the World Economy (IfW-Kiel), told DW. "They encompass almost all industries and are far larger than any EU or US subsidies."

Maybe we should increase our own subsidies instead? I really don't see the argument here - would we transition to a green economy too fast when climate change is a crisis in waiting? Why are cheap products a problem all of a sudden, I thought that was the primary reason we started using China to mass produce stuff on our behalf, i.e. we took advantage of their horrible working conditions that we know led to suicides and anti-jump fences. But now all of a sudden cheap stuff is a problem?

In addition to the huge subsidies, the report's authors noted, Chinese producers also benefit from preferential access to critical raw materials, forced technological transfers and less domestic red tape than their foreign competitors.

All of these sound like good things we should be doing. In fact, we are doing a little bit more of transparency (which is what "forced tech transfers" are, in less loaded terms - it's literally just making corporations share knowledge and cooperate) e.g. supply chain transparency in Europe is growing. Less domestic red tape sounds like a good thing? Norway has a similar "problem" of a government being a little bit too efficient. Obviously that's not a bad thing - maybe we should figure out why we're comparatively slow?

Langhammer noted that the West also benefits from the Chinese subsidies, as consumers can buy cars at a lower price while companies can access cheaper Chinese parts. Despite the threat from cheaper Chinese EVs, he said, some automakers were skeptical about the EU probe into Beijing's subsidies as firms such as Germany's Volkswagen and US EV leader Tesla receive them, too.

As in, Tesla has received Chinese subsidies. It has also received US and (I believe) EU subsidies too. And I'm talking about supply side subsidies, demand side subsidies like governments paying part of the price of EV cars have provided tens of billions in plenty of EU and EEA countries.

0x815 OP , vor 2 Monaten

@honey_im_meat_grinding lemmy.blahaij.zone

"Artificially cheap" is basically a loaded term for "subsidized".

No. Especially in this case, it is also a term for cheap manufacturing processes by ignoring environmental and social norms, including the use of forced labour. There's ample evidence for this. For example, it is the reason why European car makers were forced to quit their collaboration with a joint venture in Xinjiang.

we are doing a little bit of transparency.

That's a good idea, but it only works if and when both sides apply it and acting in good faith. However, there is, for example, no way of an independent investigation over so many alleged human rights abuses in China, even a simple market research (or shooting a photo in the public space) may lead to behind closed-door trials for espionage, ending with long jail terms. Let alone that China intentionally produces overcapacity, while at the same time protects its own domestic market. Things like these have nothing to do with transparency and collaboration.

These are just a few examples you may have (intentionally?) missed in your statement as it doesn't describe the economic reality well. Your anti-western sentiment is somewhat weird if I may say so.

MelodiousFunk , vor 2 Monaten

Western leadership: "We definitely should probably think about starting to do greenish stuff with energy type things pretty soonish."

China: factories go brrrrrrrrrrrr

West: "No, not like that!"

Risk , vor 2 Monaten

I am not sure how to feel about this.

On one hand, it seems awfully petty in one sense when our ecological fate rests on going green as fast as possible.

On the other, I absolutely appreciate the importance of not letting domestic production get completely swamped by foreign markets.

0x815 OP , vor 2 Monaten

Europe can do that to a very large extent domestically. We had a similar situation before 2008, when Spain and Germany offered huge subsidies to private households to boost the installations of solar roof tops, for example. Practically all of that money went into the coffers of Chinese solar tech suppliers. Europe must not make this mistake again, not in the least as many of Chinese products are produced under much lower environmental and social standards imho.