lemonde.fr

grue , an Europe in France asks two Chinese spies to leave the country after attempt to forcibly repatriate exiled Chinese dissident

What the fuck? Put the kidnappers in prison and give the dissident asylum!

CosmicTurtle0 ,

It was probably one of those situations where the kidnappers had diplomatic immunity and the host country had no other option but to declare them persona non grata.

rustyfish , an Europe in France asks two Chinese spies to leave the country after attempt to forcibly repatriate exiled Chinese dissident
@rustyfish@lemmy.world avatar

Using their diplomatic immunity to commit crimes in other countries.

You can’t trust China. No mater what.

Transporter_Room_3 , an Europe in France asks two Chinese spies to leave the country after attempt to forcibly repatriate exiled Chinese dissident
@Transporter_Room_3@startrek.website avatar

so as not to offend Beijing.

WHO

FUCKING

CARES

"We caught your agents doing illegal things in our country so pinky promise you won't do it again and please please please don't be mad at me for catching you doing something wrong oh pretty please"

Any country, my own included, who gets caught doing shit like that deserves to be blasted, deserves ridicule, and most importantly, does not deserve consideration for nicities.

And given this is such a common thing in other countries, I don't know why anyone bothers listening to them when they say "oh it's just a misunderstanding"

No, you're trying to human traffic someone who doesn't want to return to your country, that's kidnapping at the very least, terrorism in my opinion, and should immediately get their immunity (which was always a stupid idea for a great many crimes) revoked and get tossed in max sec.

veroxii ,

What about offending France (and the rest of the world for that matter)?

NocturnalMorning , an Europe in France asks two Chinese spies to leave the country after attempt to forcibly repatriate exiled Chinese dissident

The order came from the Elysée Palace but had to remain secret so as not to offend Beijing.

So much for it being a secret. I think people are getting tired of China going into other countries and harassing Chinese people that live there.

eldavi , an Europe in France asks two Chinese spies to leave the country after attempt to forcibly repatriate exiled Chinese dissident

i wonder why they didn't do it like the indians did in canada recently

AFC1886VCC , an Europe in Man arrested with explosives near Paris airport was part of vast Russian sabotage campaign

Why do I keep reading "lemonde" as "lemonade"

Noodle07 ,

They have refreshing articles maybe?

DarkThoughts , an Europe in Man arrested with explosives near Paris airport was part of vast Russian sabotage campaign

I don't understand how shit like this does not already warrant to enact article 5. Russia sends literal sabotage units to us to physically destroy shit, as well as assassination squads to murder people. Those are and should be seen as direct attacks to our countries.

Swedneck ,
@Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

because politics, that would anger china and we've made the absolutely galaxybrained decision to make ourselves basically entirely reliant upon that one country to survive :)))

SkybreakerEngineer ,

More like because Russia still has nukes.

federalreverse Mod ,

What would be the benefit of open war against Russia, especially if NATO were to start it? I see absolutely nothing.

There's a lot of room for additional sanctions against Russia too. The EU is still importing fossil gas and nuclear fuel, for example. Countries like Cyprus and the UK can probably still freeze additional Russian funds. [...]

DarkThoughts ,

How would NATO start it after Russia repeatedly attacked us?!

federalreverse Mod ,

Russia emits misinformation, Russia attacks through Interwebs, Russia employs espionage, Russia sabotages. But Russia has not performed a full-scale military attack on any NATO country. And unless they do, in the eye of any onlooker, NATO would be the one to start the altercation.

DarkThoughts ,

When would you say the Russian invasion of Ukraine started?

federalreverse Mod ,

Ukraine is not a NATO country, for better or worse. (It's anyone's guess whether Russia would have attacked Ukraine if they were a NATO member.)

jumjummy ,

The best sanctions we could impose is a complete shutdown of all of Russia’s Internet access. You’d see massive reduction in disinformation across the web.

AlexisFR ,
@AlexisFR@jlai.lu avatar

I like not having to survive a nuclear apocalypse thanks you.

DarkThoughts ,

Better than the slow cooking & societal collapse through climate change.

CAVOK OP ,

Not really, no.

AngryCommieKender ,

WhAt ArE yOu TaLkiNg AbOuT FaLlOuT76 was great!

echodot ,

Yeah because nuclear war doesn't cause climate change.

You need some air holes drilled in your skull, might let some of the idiot out.

cheddar ,
@cheddar@programming.dev avatar

Because nobody wants to start WWIII. And you shouldn't want that too.

DarkThoughts ,

So just bow to our new Russian overlords. Got it.

TheDorkfromYork ,

Sink one Russian warship per attack. Russia doesnt seem to mind losing ships.

eleitl ,

You're reading a news article, and everything is instantly clear to you. Great work, Holmes. Now please list the evidence for us Watsons.

jimmy90 , an Europe in Man arrested with explosives near Paris airport was part of vast Russian sabotage campaign

i guess the evidence of massive coordination by Moscow was at the end of the article?

this would be a most flagrant act of war against France if so, no?

simple , an Europe in Man arrested with explosives near Paris airport was part of vast Russian sabotage campaign
@simple@lemm.ee avatar

Anyone have a paywall-free link?

homesweethomeMrL ,
fartington ,

[Thema, Post oder Kommentar wurde durch den Author gelöscht]

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  • homesweethomeMrL ,

    Yeah I saw that. I don’t think that’s a “paywall” but a “subscription wall”. It’s not behind a pop-up, its behind a login. I think.

    inlandempire ,
    @inlandempire@jlai.lu avatar

    Yeah french newspapers are annoying because of that

    CaptObvious ,

    France arrests Ukraine-Russia national with explosives on terror charges - https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/france-arrested-russian-speaker-possession-explosives-near-paris-airport-bfm-tv-2024-06-05/

    Not the Le Monde article, but also not paywalled.

    jonne ,

    Jesus, the only reason they caught him was because he blew himself up making bombs? How many others are out there?

    NotMyOldRedditName ,

    I guess the trope of bomb makers missing fingers in movies is based on reality.

    bungalowtill , an Europe in Swedish MPs green-light controversial US defense deal

    Why another defense deal with the US, when Sweden just joined NATO?

    Atomic ,

    Because this deal gives US access to military based starting now. And can place soldiers there.

    Just because Sweden is in NATO doesn't mean other NATO countries can place soldiers in Sweden during peacetime

    bungalowtill ,

    Germany and other countries have soldiers stationed in Lithuania on a NATO initiative. Where‘s the difference?

    Atomic ,

    Very difficult for me to tell you the difference because we are not privy to that type of information. Seeing as it is incredibly sensitive. I didn't strike the deal with Lituania. And I didn't strike the deal with Sweden and USA. (Sorry)

    But the similarity, is that Lithuania agreed to it.

    bungalowtill ,

    you find it weird that I asked that question?

    Atomic ,

    Is that relevant to anything?

    bungalowtill ,

    to our conversation, yes. I ask a question, not necessarily to you, you know, and you derail the conversation with: how should I know, I didn‘t make the deal with Lithuania? yeah it‘s relevant to my appreciation of you, I guess.

    gravitas_deficiency ,

    It’s all done on a case-by-case basis. Joining NATO isn’t like Civ’s “your armies can travel in my territories” negotiation perk that applies to all of NATO. It needs to be a bilateral agreement. NATO is a mutual defense alliance, but it is absolutely not intended to undermine any member’s sovereignty.

    DarkThoughts , an Europe in French left finds governing agreement for 'new popular front' alliance

    So we'll potentially either see a far right or a far left pro Russian leadership? That's really bad for France, Ukraine and the EU.

    inlandempire OP ,
    @inlandempire@jlai.lu avatar

    "Pro russian far left" is the rhetoric used by the Macron government, the parties of this union have consistently condemned the Russian invasion, the program they revealed mentions :

    Defend Ukraine and peace on the European continent to thwart Vladimir Putin’s war of aggression, and for him to answer for his crimes before international justice: to defend unwaveringly the sovereignty and freedom of the Ukrainian people as well as the integrity of its borders, by delivering necessary weapons, cancelling its foreign debt, seizing the assets of the oligarchs who contribute to the Russian war effort within the framework permitted by international law, sending peacekeepers to secure nuclear power plants, in an international context of tensions and war on the European continent and working towards the return of peace

    Far left in France has a specific definition that seems to be blatantly disregarded by french politicians : those who want to take power via a revolution are far left, this union is playing the game of gaining power through the popular vote

    DarkThoughts ,

    I'm citing one of the suggested presidential candidates, Melenchon, not Macron...

    Of course, the more radical La France Insoumise (LFI) had to amend its discourse that painted Russia as a "more reliable partner than the United States," as the party's leader Jean-Luc Mélenchon said in 2020. After more than a year of war, they now advocate exploring negotiated paths out of the conflict. "The war in Ukraine must end. That's what we have to work on. It is a matter of diplomacy rather than artillery fire," wrote Mélenchon in December 2022.

    https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2023/04/07/war-in-ukraine-the-french-left-s-impossible-consistency_6022080_4.html

    Hadriscus , an Europe in French left finds governing agreement for 'new popular front' alliance

    I haven't looked into the details but it's such good news. Macron's plan seems foiled. It took such a menace to unite the left ! though I'd be very surprised LO or the PCF joined as well...

    unautrenom ,

    The PCF is in IIRC

    Hadriscus ,

    That's good news

    DarkThoughts ,

    How tf is pro Russian extremists on either side potentially taking over France good news?

    Hadriscus ,

    Who ? What ?

    DarkThoughts ,

    Of course, the more radical La France Insoumise (LFI) had to amend its discourse that painted Russia as a "more reliable partner than the United States," as the party's leader Jean-Luc Mélenchon said in 2020. After more than a year of war, they now advocate exploring negotiated paths out of the conflict. "The war in Ukraine must end. That's what we have to work on. It is a matter of diplomacy rather than artillery fire," wrote Mélenchon in December 2022.

    https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2023/04/07/war-in-ukraine-the-french-left-s-impossible-consistency_6022080_4.html

    Hadriscus ,

    The statement "Russia is a more reliable partner than the United States" was made well before the aggression, I think it's safe to say it doesn't hold today.

    The other statement by JLM is "It is a matter of diplomacy rather than artillery fire" - I don't see how this is pro-russian.

    The RN though, is literally funded by Russia. So if you want them beat (and you do), this unity is necessary.

    LFI are hardly extremists. They're not revolutionaries, they're not communists, they're just socialists.

    DarkThoughts ,

    The statement "Russia is a more reliable partner than the United States" was made well before the aggression, I think it's safe to say it doesn't hold today.

    Do you have a more recent statement that goes the other way?

    The other statement by JLM is "It is a matter of diplomacy rather than artillery fire" - I don't see how this is pro-russian.

    Here in Germany those tyep of people say "Frieden schaffen ohne Waffen!", meaning making peace without weapons. It's a pro Russia narrative that undermines Ukraine's sovereignty and its right to defend itself. The conditions for making peace are already known; Russia has to stop its aggressions and return to its internationally recognized borders. This isn't even debatable, but those people who scream for diplomacy over sending weapons think it is.

    LFI are hardly extremists. They're not revolutionaries, they're not communists, they're just socialists.

    With pro Russia & anti EU stances I would very much categorize them as dangerous extremists. Especially with how important France is to the EU.

    Hadriscus , (Bearbeitet )

    No, I don't have a more recent statement. Looks like I have some reading to do. LFI's stance on Europe has always been too vague for comfort to me, perhaps it's time to settle this.

    inlandempire OP ,
    @inlandempire@jlai.lu avatar

    It's not your job to go look for those statements either, they can search for more information themselves and report back with their findings

    Hadriscus ,

    Absolutely, I meant some reading on the LFI's positioning about Europe, specifically. And perhaps JLM's own positioning within that, since he's not always in complete unison with the rest of the party. Wrt the statement from 2020, I consider it reasonable to say it doesn't apply today.

    DarkThoughts ,

    I literally already did report back with what I found. You're just making excuses at this point to push your narrative.

    inlandempire OP ,
    @inlandempire@jlai.lu avatar

    Why be so antagonizing, this is a discussion

    unautrenom ,

    To my knowledge, while LFI (but in particular Jean Luc Melanchon, who REALLY isn't even the cards to be PM) is certainly anti EU and made ambiguous statements on Russia as well as other countries, these views haven't passed on to the Popular Front. They have been perfectly clear in their program that they in support of Ukraine over Russia, and that they would continue (and increase) sending weapons it's way. This was the red line of the socialists, who are right now the biggest party alongside LFI, and supported by a majority of the rest of the aliance (esp the Greens).

    The Popular Front is Pro-Ukraine, and against Russia. Diplo wise, on the question of the EU, they have said they want to get rid of the CETA (which has been a demand of the Left for quite some time, with good reason), and that they are lukewarm on the EU electricity market (which was really disadventagous to France because our energy prod is cheap, but prices are driven up for no reason in an high-inflation context), but they are otherwise pro-EU (remeber! The Soc-dems and the greens are a big chunk of the alliance!)

    It's unfortunate foreign media (but our medias do it too) present the Popular Front as a LFI++ that is 'just as bad as far right' when it's a moderate left alliance against fascism.

    DarkThoughts ,

    who REALLY isn't even the cards to be PM

    Why would they name him then?
    Is there a site that lists the major bullet points of their stances?

    unautrenom ,

    The Popular Front didn't 'name' him (unless you mean the article). In fact, parties won't 'get' to name anyone, that's the prsident who will pick the PM. However, he has to pick a PM whom a majority of the National Assembly (being elected here) will support, lest it gets 'censored' (destitued) by the Parliement.

    JLM is the leader of LFI (even if, particularly in the creation of the Popular Front, his detractors are slowly getting the better of him), and he was LFI's candidate for the 2022 Presidential Election. What the article mentions is that a few days ago, he mentioned on TV that he feels 'capable' of endorsing the role of PM. That does NOT mean the rest of the alliance will suport him (in fact, there's a 0% chance the socialists will).

    The people who are more likely to be named as PM (if the Popular Front wins a majority of the Assembly), are either François Ruffin (also LFI, but highly popular, is the one who launched the movement for this Popular Front, and a detractor of Melanchon's), or somebody more moderate without much political clout used to serve as the one on the ejectable seat when Macron's term is over (and said PM is likely to have become unpopular by then).

    For their program, I unfortunately wasn't able to find a translation nor a summary in english (tbf, it was published just this friday).

    Le Monde has a summary (in french) which you can translate with your favorite translator app if you want.

    SuddenDownpour ,

    What's the front's position on Palestine-Israel? And taxes?

    unautrenom ,

    All parties in the Popular Front are generally pro-Palestinians (in particular, Macron's long-standing refusal to even acknowledge that Israel is doing any wrong has been particularly shocking to them, and a good chunk of the population).

    In their program they say (translation by me from Le Monde's article):

    • they want to "act in favor of the liberation of the hostages detained since the Hamas' terrorist massacres, of whom they reject the theocratic project."
    • they also say they want to "immediately recognize the Palestinian State alongside the State of Israël"
    • they want to "cut (stop) the French government's culpable support for [Benyamin] Netanyahu's far right supremacist government to impose an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, and enforce the ICJ's [International Court of Justice's] order, which unambiguously refers to a risk of genocide."

    As for taxes, there's a lot of stuff (and I'm not translating everything on mobile lol). A lot of it boils down to revertibg all the terribly unbalanced and unfair tax policies of Macron like:

    • reestablish the ISF: the tax on one's fortune (generally seen as a rich tax) with a climate twist (not entirely sure what they mean by that, prob gonna make it even hugher if you things like private jets all the time)
    • abolish the flat tax: this one's a little complex and I'm really not an expert on this but it's seen as very unqaid. A left MP in 2018 said when this taw was introduced: "Whereas an employee earning 1.2 smic [the minimal salary in France] per month who gets a raise will pay a 14% tax rate on it, a billionaire who earns ten million euros more through a financial transaction will only pay 12.8% tax on this new gain"
    • reestablish the exit tax: that was a tax of "unrealized capital gains when taxpayers transfer their tax domicile outside France" (from what I understand, this was meant to fight against fiscal evasion like for when French company heads went to sell their assets in Belgium in which stock sale wasn't taxed. It was supposed to bring about ~800 mil eurosin 2016 had the tax not been removed by then when Macron was Minister of Budget)
    • new brackets to make taxes more progressive and fair
    • increase their number to fourteen for revenue tax
    • establish it in the CSG (generalized social contribution)
    • add some more on heritage tax, as well as adding a maximum upon it

    They also said they want to add a tax on products depending on how much they travelled throughtout the world (to be produced, I imagine), condition company subsidies to their respect of environemental & social norms (esp fighting discrimination within companies). They also want to tax financial transaction (I'm supposing they mean this at a EU level with the big 'Tax the rich' petition), agro companies super profits.

    On a related note, there are lots of stuff they want to do for the lower strada's budgets like:

    • make the first few kWh of electricity free of charge each months.
    • blocking the prices of some first necessity goods (food, energy, fuel specifically)
    • establish minimum prices at which the agro industry will have to adhere to to buy stuff from farmers
    • increase budgets for the creation of public lodgings to 1.4B euros (and increase by 10% the youth grants to help them find a place to live)
    • revert Macron's reform of the RSA (most basic and lowest income provided by the state that allows people to feed themselves if they don't have a job nor any other gov income like the one for unemployement (post-firing/post-resign to help until the person finds a new job). Macron's reform required that if somebody wants the RSA, they have to work at least 15 hours a week FOR FREE. You can guess how much the people who only had this, including the parts of the population who lives with a handicap took it)
    • returning to a max of 32 hours per weeks for physically demanding or night jobs.

    (Holy shit this took me one hour to write, hopefully I didn't forget anything)

    SuddenDownpour ,

    Wow, thanks a lot for the extremely detailed response. I suggest you copy it to a txt file at some point in case you get the chance to post it again somewhere else, because it almost feels like a waste that not much more people will pass through the thread.

    DmMacniel , an Europe in French left finds governing agreement for 'new popular front' alliance

    The French popular front or the popular front of France?

    inlandempire OP ,
    @inlandempire@jlai.lu avatar

    I'm not sure about the semantics but I think both can be used interchangeably ?

    Pat_Riot ,
    @Pat_Riot@lemmy.today avatar

    It's a Monty Python reference.

    inlandempire OP ,
    @inlandempire@jlai.lu avatar
    gravitas_deficiency , (Bearbeitet )

    help help I’m being repressed! come see the violence inherent to the system!

    Edit: ffs it’s just more Monty Python guys

    Killing_Spark ,

    Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government

    Zorque ,

    Hes not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy

    claire ,
    @claire@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar
    Hugh_Jeggs ,

    They mix up the adjectives so it could only be the french front popular

    Or the front popular of France a

    Hadriscus ,

    I thought we were the french people's popular front ?

    Norgur , an Europe in The Seine and other European rivers contaminated by a 'forever chemical' that has gone under the radar
    @Norgur@fedia.io avatar

    Can't we just dump more nitrite into the groundwater through cow feces to make this go away?

    Noodle07 ,

    I don't know if it will work but we sure are trying to

    Badeendje , an Europe in The Seine and other European rivers contaminated by a 'forever chemical' that has gone under the radar
    @Badeendje@lemmy.world avatar

    Oh great. And in a decade they will tell us that the company that made it already knew for 3 decades how horrible it was.

    voodoocode ,

    The company is Bayer btw

    Badeendje ,
    @Badeendje@lemmy.world avatar

    The production of Zyklon B was not enough of a crime against humanity huh.

    But the company will undoubtedly spin off another company and divest from the chemical in question.

    raspberriesareyummy ,

    Not that Bayer isn't full of shit, but the company that inherited the producer of Zyklon B did not end up in Bayer

    Miaou ,

    I don't have the full article, do they mention Bayer? Téflon does its own fair share of damages

    voodoocode ,

    This is not about Teflon which you're right is one of the 10000 other forever chemicals. The specific case mentions TFA coming from pesticides. Largest Agrochemistry producer is Bayer.

    Miaou ,

    Ah I see thanks, I guess I need to learn more about pfas

    Flughoernchen ,

    The EU started to heavily regulate some PFAS in 2010, others following on the heels. The regulations include a heavy focus on handling and waste management in order to minimize the potential of exposure and contamination. The plan to get rid of PFAS entirely has been around ever since. So yeah, they've known it's horrible.

    Badeendje ,
    @Badeendje@lemmy.world avatar

    Dutch tv had a whole documentary on how pfas contaminated soil is mixed with other soils and then dumped in artificial ponds or lakes we created winning sand.

    Miaou ,

    People from a Teflon factory were protesting pfas ban in cookingware so you can add weak leadership on top of that

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