lemmy.ca

Sam_Bass , an linuxmemes in Windows 10 EOL PSA

Hell my win10 pc hasnt had an update since '21 so no great loss

Opisek ,

That computer better be air gapped. Security updates are essential.

Sam_Bass ,

It has no internet connection, so no

JackbyDev ,

You mean yes lol. That's air gapped.

FIST_FILLET ,

i know you guys are probably right when you say that security updates are important, but why exactly? give me an example of how i could be fucked over while i’m just mindlessly playing my steam games and watching twitch+youtube on a system that hasn’t been updated since 2016.

i blindly assume that as long as i don’t download and run stupid .exes or click stupid links, i am completely fine

Opisek , (Bearbeitet )

You don't need to click anything suspicious. Remote code execution has in the past been done through images, PDFs, comments on some webpage, or supposedly trustworthy games. Just recently, Minecraft would let an attacker run anything on the victim's computer due to a vulnerability in Log4j.

If your computer is not directly exposed to the internet, you might get away with some security updates that for example fix vulnerabilities that target the system firewall. But the point is, you're constantly exposing yourself to attackers without knowing so.

A few example vectors:

  • Cross-Site Scripting (XSS) allows an attacker to run arbitrary code on the victim's browser. All that's required is a website that doesn't validate its input properly. That is, an attacker can write executable code into a YouTube comment and when you view that comment, your computer will execute that code. Obviously YouTube is secured against that, but there are plenty of websites where this attack can be done. Therefore, modern browsers isolate the code execution to only that "browser tab", so the attacker can't access some sensitive data (unless the browser has some undiscovered vulnerability or for example the page itself contains sensitive information, say your bank account details). While modern browsers should provide sufficient protection against such attacks, the take-away point is that you don't necessarily need to click any "suspicious links". A vulnerability in a well-known website you frequent could be discovered any day.

  • An attacker can easily make your PC go to their website when typing google.com. DNS (how your computer is able to tell which web address is which computer) is not encrypted. It is incredibly easy tamper with. Why you don't get scammed everyday is because of TLS encryption. Your computer is able to tell that the website is not Google, because it doesn't have Google's cryptographic "keys". Assume that we discover a vulnerability in TLS (encryption of webpages) tomorrow and you refuse to update your operating system. Suddenly, an attacker can route any traffic they'd like back to them and you would be none the wiser. Same thing would happen if some vulnerability is discovered in X509 certificates, if ICANN's private keys are leaked, and so on.

There are a lot of things that could go wrong. And they go wrong daily. Security updates fix vulnerabilities that we constantly find. They may be updates for your browser, your games, or indeed your operating system, depending on where that vulnerability is. The examples I gave are exaggerated, because they're meant to be simple to understand. We do not find vulnerabilities in TLS every single day. Still, weak points are being discovered and fixed constantly. One of the bigger exploits were Spectre/Meltdown (attacks on the CPU) that let an attacker read any data they want, provided they can simply run some code on your computer in some way.

Also, obviously, if you expose yourself to the internet directly (e.g. port forwarding) or connect to an unsecure WiFi network, you'll be bombarded with automated attacks that exploit holes found in firewall and the likes. If you open a port on your computer right now, you'll get around a few hundred such knocks per day.

There are plenty of videos online that display what happens if you for example use a Windows 95 computer, either directly exposed to the internet or not. Might be worth watching to see just how easy it is for attackers to take over in the case of such an ancient system. Same principles apply to newer systems as well, the attacks are just more complex.

FIST_FILLET ,

thank you for the explanation and the examples :) i will no longer be so ignorant about security updates

ricdeh ,
@ricdeh@lemmy.world avatar

For web browsing, that almost makes no difference. As long as the browser is being updated, the most important attack vectors are closed. Even if there are any exploitable vulnerabilities on the OS, that will stop malware from even getting to them.

Opisek ,

Absolute joke of a comment. You are assuming the browser is a holy grail completely isolating the internet from the operating system.

First of all. The browser runs on the operating system's services. In particular, the isolation that you implicitly cite is done entirely by the kernel. (That's for example why you cannot run chrome in an unprivileged docker container - the crucial isolation-centered system calls are not available) The whole network stack is managed by the operating system. Cryptography can also partially be done OS-sided. The simplest example is CSPRNG, which is usually provided by the OS. (Advanced systems may rely on external physical generators, see Cloudflare's lava lamps).

Secondly. Completely and utterly wrong. The linked video displays the execution of Meltdown/Spectre within a browser. Using JavaScript. This allows the attacker to gain access to any data they want on your computer simply by running some JavaScript code. Easily remotely executed via XSS on a poorly written website. You may read the full article here. Or inform yourself about Meltdown and Spectre here. How is that relevant? Combating this vulnerability was primarily done via critical OS updates. The exploits are inherit to certain CPUs and are therefore not fully fixable. Still, the combination of BIOS, Chipset, OS, and browser updates help prevent very serious attack vectors. (That's the reason why the browser's time measurement is only accurate to about the millisecond.)

So no. Browsers aren't the magic solution to everything (sorry Ubuntu Snap). They very much depend on the OS providing the assumed security guarantees. And even assuming no direct vulnerabilities in the OS, we can never exclude side-channel attacks, like what Meltdown and Spectre were (or still are if you refuse to update your system).

scrubbles , an Memes in He can't prove it?
@scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech avatar

God, remember when links to pictures of monkeys were selling for millions and rubes ate it up?

pearsaltchocolatebar ,

I still want to know how much money my wife's dumb ass ex-boss lost when the bubble burst. I think he was in the mid 6 figure range.

Bipta ,

Most people who bought them are likely still in the green compared to holding the cryptocurrency they used to purchase them, which itself is with more than the USD used to purchase the crypto.

So you'd probably be disappointed.

thesmokingman ,
scrubbles ,
@scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech avatar

No man, it's still worth that much! As long as I don't sell and realize the losses I'm in the green!

jkrtn ,

Wow some clowns spent nearly half a million on some of the laziest JPGs ever drawn. Wish I had been in on a grift like that. If someone can afford to spend that much on a PNG they don't need the money so it is basically victimless.

Moonrise2473 ,

But it also come with extra privileges like going to exclusive parties where powerful UV lights can cause eye damage

PatFussy ,

It was not 'pictures of monkeys' it was art. It was digital art. If you don't get that then you don't understand money laundering.

kogasa ,
@kogasa@programming.dev avatar

Monkey laundering.

henrykang , an Memes in You are helping support the fediverse, right?

The basketball stars game has basic controls, but it's not easy to win. Your goal is to score by shooting the ball into your opponent's basket.

empireOfLove2 , an Memes in Teenagers. (I'm 17)
@empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Just don't go doing something super boneheaded like trying to hard-code swear word filters or- oh wait the devs already did that (or tried to, anyway) and told users they were racist for not wanting an arbitrary filter because daddy knows best.

marcie ,
@marcie@lemmy.ml avatar
dullbananas OP ,
@dullbananas@lemmy.ca avatar

I regret to inform you that I already did something boneheaded

https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/pull/4560

Thcdenton , an Memes in Wtf, Steve Buchemi always been a hot rodent man...

What about rodent women? I'm kinda into that.

zero_spelled_with_an_ecks ,

Gadget Hackwrench.

foggy , an Memes in Build Back Better

This just in: being in a high position of power in the wealthiest nation to ever exist somehow increases your net worth

Still trying to figure it out. I'll report back when I know more! 🫡

jubilationtcornpone ,

In other breaking news, having wealth of any degree makes it easier to acquire more wealth. More at 9:00!

hydroptic , an Memes in My landlord thinks my gaming pc is for work... haha

Wait, some landlords want tips?

BarrelAgedBoredom ,

Pretty sure it's a meme that's going to become real at this rate. Kinda like the "birds aren't real" meme conspiracy theory that managed to suck a couple of fools in

SpaceCowboy ,
@SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

Good old Poe's law.

marcie ,
@marcie@lemmy.ml avatar

afaik youre expected, informally, to provide 2 months rent up front in japan as a tip

hydroptic ,

That sounds like a security deposit

shyguyblue , an Memes in two party system is a scam

Democrats keep trying to increase minimum wage, read a fucking News source.

olivebranch OP ,

Sure they do. Keep believing, any day now...

shiroininja ,

The problem is, we need caps on profit margins on necessities, and to stop the making of things we need for basic survival investment opportunities.

But that would be difficult to get done. So they go for the low hanging fruit of wages, which never permanently solve anything because they’ll just keep raising prices under this scamflation cycle we’ve been in since COVID.

erp , an Memes in You know, I can tell you both of Magickarps attacks!

I much prefer Dunning-Notice-Krueger. I get a credit collections notice delivered by a guy with a metal-clawed glove. Now with Fedora!

hertg , an Memes in You know, I can tell you both of Magickarps attacks!

Here's a good post, that argues the dunning-kruger effect is not real. I guess I am one of those annoying "well actually, ..." types now.

https://economicsfromthetopdown.com/2022/04/08/the-dunning-kruger-effect-is-autocorrelation/

CookieOfFortune ,

The issue is yeah there’s one graph that’s not great but there’s also decades of research following the original publication that is not addressed.

pjwestin , an Memes in You know, I can tell you both of Magickarps attacks!
@pjwestin@lemmy.world avatar

Actually, I do know. I've spent 30 minutes researching it the other day, so I actually know a ton about it.

DmMacniel , an Memes in You know, I can tell you both of Magickarps attacks!

Don't you mean 3?

OttoVonNoob OP ,

Tackle, splash and flail? .. Krugered it all on purpose for the meme. As I'm a Gen 1 player:X

Eczpurt ,

Also gets access to bounce!

Karyoplasma ,

There is also an event Magikarp that knows Hydropump.

OttoVonNoob OP , (Bearbeitet )

Really? I know Gyarados gets it. I checked PokemonDB and it had those three. I know I have been hydropumped by a trainer before but have never been bounced on? Should of checked bulbapedia.. DB is bush league..

punkhazard ,

Do we count struggle?

Toribor , an Memes in You know, I can tell you both of Magickarps attacks!
@Toribor@corndog.social avatar

The biggest misunderstanding of the Dunning Kruger effect is the idea that it only applies to certain people. It applies to everyone, we all overestimate our expertise at times. It's a cognitive bias that we all have to knowingly watch out for, not something that indicates stupidity.

NutWrench , an Memes in You know, I can tell you both of Magickarps attacks!
@NutWrench@lemmy.world avatar

Basically, don't make definitive statements about things you don't understand. Just try to be as helpful as you can with the knowledge you have.

It also helps if you're not struggling with a narcissistic personality disorder that causes you to make definitive statements in the first place.

JoYo ,
@JoYo@lemmy.ml avatar

You can absolutely make definitive statements about dunning-kruger effect tho.

Absolutely no one seems to know what it means, even Dunning and Kruger.

variants ,

Only siths deal in definitive statements

neo ,

Easy! Since I understand everything I can just remain perfect and share my wisdom as I see fit.

pkmkdz ,

You just dissed most of redditors. I applaud

MargotRobbie , an Memes in Oscar Bait
@MargotRobbie@lemm.ee avatar

At least he was nominated for an Oscar this year, unlike someone else who was also in "Barbie" :(

Viking_Hippie ,

You were robbed!

Akasazh , (Bearbeitet )
@Akasazh@feddit.nl avatar

Would you say she's a robbee ?

Viking_Hippie ,

Ah Margot that far, yeah..

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