TheGrandNagus ,

Good. The UK's military (just like seemingly everything else lol) saw a major hit under the Conservatives.

The world is, unfortunately, becoming more hostile and Europe needs to be prepared for this.

ID411 ,

“The world”is not more hostile and is not our enemy

Tar_alcaran ,

Yeah, obviously Russia has the best interests of Europe at heart... Hence their bloody invasion

ID411 ,

The have invaded Ukraine .

TheGrandNagus ,

Cool story bro. You tell Russia, China, and various other countries that.

ID411 ,

Ok so what hostilities have there been toward the UK, or to any NATO member - from Russia and China and these “Various other countries” that suggest we need to grow or military?

5714 ,

Baltic states.

Taiwan, by extension.

ID411 ,

Nothing has happened in the baltics, and there is no specific threat, that can be attributed directly to Russia.

As for Taiwan, they are not a member of NATO and we (Britain) have no defence treaty with them. Perhaps because we do not officially recognise them as a state, and follow the One China policy.

Even if none of that were true, I am not convinced increasing the UK defence budget helps them very much.

5714 ,

Are you against military spending in general or against the oppurtunity costs of military spending for something specific?

meep_launcher ,

I think this guy is a revisionist Tankie. Russia and China have a history of expansionism and conduct provocative military exercises near NATO and Southeast Asian country borders.

Best to ignore them and they can sit in the mud of downvotes for others to read and realize they are full of beans.

ID411 ,

We are talking about the British defence budget, stay on topic.

ID411 ,

I am responding to a comment in support of the increase (in the British defence budget) , on the grounds the “the world is more hostile and we need to be prepared”

No one seems to be able to stand up that claim. You helpfully offered the Baltics and Taiwan, which we’ve addressed, and so I’m hoping that someone will show us something new, that demonstrates Britain does indeed need to be prepared to defend itself from increased hostilities.

It is quite important, because the newly elected Chancellor our the Exchequer has every day since taking office, been doing media to tell British people, “we haven’t got any money”

TheGrandNagus ,

You're joking, right? Russia regularly threatens to nuke the UK, has done several misinformation campaigns in our political system, and even carried out an assassination using fucking chemical weapons on British soil. Sounds pretty hostile to me.

China has spoken at length about intending to take back Taiwan, an ally, and the west can't let that happen, it would be disastrous. They also had a violent crackdown on Hong Kong which the UK has a unique vested interest in for obvious reasons, state-sponsored Chinese hackers have on multiple occasions targeted UK institutions, including hospitals and the Ministry of Defence.

And yes, various other countries. What, you think nowhere is hostile? There's active battle against Houthis who are attacking merchant and military vessels right now, for example.

If you think countries don't need defensive capabilities, you are wrong. You'd think that would be plainly obvious right now, considering a country in Europe is being fucking invaded right now.

ID411 , (edited )

I’m not trying to be a prick here, but I am trying to introduce the idea that you might have relied only on News, to inform yourself about these situations.

For example, you’ve said “Russia regularly threatens to Nuke the UK” - so find a few examples and we’ll go over them together.

What we’re looking for, are words from the Russian government, statements, press conferences and such - primary sources and not from a newspaper (unless the newspaper quotes the source.) Its a very serious issue, so it should demand a high standard of proof, but to save time, we can exclude the ones that are threats of retaliation.

As an extension, look up Britains defence obligations towards Taiwan. You’ve said they are an “ally” to Brtiain but in fact Britain doesn’t even recognise them as an independent State .

TheGrandNagus , (edited )

Lmao you're acting like the press in Russia is free. It isn't. Nuke threats on state TV, large government-backed papers, government staff, and Putin-allied ex-presidents are government sanctioned.

What obligates the UK to defend its allies? Oh I dunno, promises made, morals, and the cold-hearted pragmatist view that losing Taiwan would be a complete disaster for the UK and the world in general. Semiconductors are kind of a big deal. There's this new invention called the microprocessor - they're pretty neat, and used practically everywhere!

I don't know why I'm bothering talking to a tankie. No matter what I say you'll never shift from your position that Russia/China good, west bad.

ID411 ,

Just address the facts instead of yelling slurs like a 14 year old ?

Youve described Taiwan as ally, while Britain doesn’t not even recognise them as a state - because their One China policy.

You think the world is run on morals and promises and that Britain needs semiconductors from TSMC, but you can’t tell me which promise and morals, or why we can’t use semi conductor from any of the other manufacturers.

It’s not unfair to call to you a fucking know nothing Moron, educated by YouTube.

TheGrandNagus , (edited )

Youve described Taiwan as ally

Because they are.

while Britain doesn’t not even recognise them as a state

Very few do. That's unfortunate, but countries can't really get by if China decides to sanction them. They're very embedded in the world economy. So we support Taiwan while not officially recognising them as a state wink wink.

The UK has recognised them more than most though. There are embassies, there have been state visits (extremely rare when it comes to Taiwan), and the House of Commons Foreign Affairs Select Committee have stated that "Taiwan is an independent country" - in other words, the UK has went as far as you can go in recognising Taiwan without having sanctions from China.

If you put any thought into the geopolitical and economic ramifications of it, you'd understand why it's a lot more complex than the primary school-level understanding you appear to have of the situation.

You think the world is run on morals

Never said that. You asked why the UK should defend allies being invaded by dictatorships like Russia or China, and I gave that as one of the reasons to do so.

and that Britain needs semiconductors from TSMC

Because they do, along with everybody else.

but you can’t tell me which promise

Committments made to help allies.

or why we can’t use semi conductor from any of the other manufacturers.

Omg are you actually this clueless? Practically everyone uses TSMC. The world would be set back so much without TSMC. They're the market leader. Even Intel uses TSMC.

and morals

You don't see what's morally wrong with Russia or China invading their neighbours, killing thousands, and making them live under a dictatorship? You don't see what's morally wrong with Russia committing a genocide now? The rape and torture they've committed and are committing right now?

Jesus. I mean I know you're a tankie, but that's fucked up even for them.

It's not unfair to call to you a fucking know nothing Moron, educated by YouTube.

Ironic.

DragonConsort ,

I can't say I'm especially pro-military, but I think it's worth noting that a simple budget increase like this is definitely going to be vastly more effective at strengthening our armed forces than what Rishi Sunak BASED HIS ENTIRE CAMPAIGN ON, which was mandatory service for young people.

Budget for good weapons, equipment and vehicles is way more important to a modern army than just having a lot of warm bodies to throw at a target- just look at Russia's atrocious waste of lives in Ukraine.

ID411 ,

Which vehicles ?

Thekingoflorda ,
@Thekingoflorda@lemmy.world avatar

Boats, airplanes, jeeps, helicopters etc.

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