We could've had a Green-Red or at least Red-Green government is what I mean.
...but, no, the Greens said "there's no female chancellor candidate, there must be one, therefore we will field a politician who's at least two magnitudes less electable" -- and that after no less than 16 years of Merkel. As if anything had to be proven on that front. As if self-congratulatory symbol politics would ever have gotten us anywhere.
I don't disagree that Habeck would have been the better candidate, I just don't believe he would have changed the outcome by that much.
In the end I think much of the difference between polls and election came from people saying they want climate protection, but in the end the yearly flight to Mallorca was more important.
people saying they want climate protection, but in the end the yearly flight to Mallorca was more important.
Nope that's cope. Classical green cope pattern, btw: "The people have a good heart but the devil of carbon is whispering in their ear".
Firstoff: No, people are aware that there might be some quality of life changes involved in climate change. The question they're asking is not "whether" but "do they make sense". "Do they lead somewhere".
Secondly: Sleeper trains and ferries exist. In principle you can fall asleep in Spandau and wake up in Palma.
Thirdly, because it's been so much fun: Who the fuck thought mandating houses to get individual heat pump installations was a good idea -- I mean I get it, members of the green party are usually well off, they bought one of those and thought it would be a great idea for everyone. Thing is: Ask scientists, they're saying district heating is the much better solution. When it comes to resource usage, overall cost, and definitely cost for the home owners.
But the Green party would never field a candidate to win, or a policy to be popular, or that failing, to be actually efficient because y'all are too busy driving your Cayenne to the farmer's market. And I mean what I say there: The Greens are considered hypocrites, caring about a gazillion things but nature and people's relationship with it.
Classical green cope pattern, btw: "The people have a good heart but the devil of carbon is whispering in their ear".
You're misrepresenting me, I never said anybody had a good heart. People are hypocrites. In theory they are all for the greater good as long as their own personal cost is zero.
Secondly: Sleeper trains and ferries exist. In principle you can fall asleep in Spandau and wake up in Alma.
And how is that relevant to what I said? What point are you trying to make here? You can also bike to work, many people still prefer to drive.
Who the fuck thought mandating houses to get individual heat pump installations was a good idea
First, nobody ever planned to mandate that. It's a lie made up by Bild and the FDP. From the very beginning the only thing the heating law was going to mandate was that your heating had to run on 60% (I believe, don't cite me on the exact number) CO2 neutral energy. Heat pumps are just automatically assumed to fulfill this condition, regardless of the current energy mix in Germany. But it was always going to be up to you how you fulfilled this condition.
Second, it IS a good idea. You can instantly lose one entire set of pipes going into your home and you instantly more than halve your carbon emissions even with the current energy mix. Yes it works, yes it also works in a cold winter, and no you don't have to instantly insulate your entire home, renew your roof and all your internal piping. At least not if you don't live in a farm house from the 1930s that never had any work done.
Third:
Thing is: Ask scientists, they're saying district heating is the much better solution.
Which is an option and would have been an option under the original law.
Also, what actual scientist says that, as an absolute, no "ifs", no conditions?
Because the thing is, if your district heating runs on fossils, which most do, it does jack shit to combat carbon emissions and helps exactly zero.
Also, getting hooked up to district heating isn't free either.
It also doesn't help if your city maybe sorta plans to start planning district heating to be eventually implemented some time in the 2090s, but only if we have enough money and the next 20 governments don't change the plan along the way. Emissions need to be reduced now, not some day in the future if we feel like it. Decentralized solutions are faster and can be implemented by individuals without waiting for political decisions that could happen in 10 years or never.
This is an excuse to not have to act, nothing more.
Which is an option and would have been an option under the original law.
It is not a realistic option because the federation isn't giving municipalities access to the capital needed to invest in that stuff.
Decentralized solutions are faster
No. Decentralised solutions need decentralised work which more often than not is a higher total amount than if there was some kind of centralisation -- also "municipal level" is not exactly the pinnacle of centralisation. With district heating a municipality needs a couple of specialists dealing with the actual heating part, installation workers which can be any plumber, not just specialists, and road workers which are a completely different pool. For a decentralised solution you need a gazillion of specialists, of which there are not enough. You need to order a gazillion of individual heat pumps and guess what companies aren't able to deliver in those numbers. Want to get a heat pump installed today? Call a company, they'll tell you that they'll be able to squeeze you in for an initial assessment in five years.
And this was known. The studies comparing different approaches had been made. Of course they were made this is Germany. And the Greens went ahead and said "we'll take the one that our members feel comfortable with, where they can feel superior to everyone else because they've been ahead of the curve". The biggest obstacle to Green policies in Germany is not the voter, but the insistence of the Green party to smell its own farts.
Greens and SPD never had a majority in any poll at the time and they weren't even close to it. Greens might have been stronger but probably SPD weaker in turn. We might have ended up with Jamaika in the end. Don't forget that a conservative anti-Habeck campaign would've also been possible. He had some unpopular positions back then, too, like giving weapons to Ukraine. What kind of insane warmonger amirite?
That's some Fundie shit. Seriously, noone but Fundies consider Realos to be war-mongers. They're also the only ones considering "Olivgrün" an insult. It's like vegans acting surprised when noone cares about their moraline-sour opinion of vegetarians.
Conservatives wouldn't have been able to touch Habeck, either, the man can quarrel with SH farmers calling him a clueless city boy and come out on top with everyone respecting him. Remember his Israel speech? Where one was left wondering "that was damn good, why isn't the chancellor doing that"? "why isn't the foreign minister doing that"? The answer is simple: Because neither of them are able to. They had to ignore their actual functions in government to get the message out.
Giving weapons to Ukraine was not popular back then, on the contrary. Habeck got a lot of shit for his statements, not only from his own party but all the other ones including conservatives.
I agree that he is much better rhetorically than Baerbock but I don't think he would have made Chancellor or even if he made Chancellor, green-red would not have made it, they would have needed the FDP anyway.
That might have been a strategic mistake idk, but it's not as bad as the cxu and many more parties straight up copying nazi talking points and steering the discussion towards the afd and against the GrEeNs °o°
rise of the far right all over Europe
I blame the greens of Germany for it
Nah, mate, this is about the structure of media ownership. I won't be one to defend the greens of Germany, they're disgusting, but the real problem is that private media have interest in the right winning the elections, and there's also a ton of money spent boosting far right influencers in social media
Thing is, they would've probably gained even more votes if they didn't incur so many scandals recently. People will probably forget about those until the next national elections
I saw postings on twitter and YouTube where teenager were outraged that the government didn't get that L'amour Tojours was just a harmless memes. So a few idiots voted in favour of AfD in response.
The Ampel may have gained control over the government at the worst possible time. Everything is currently shit and people always blame the government, even though some of that is not under their control, which currently places blame on the only three important center-left parties. Thus people turn right.
It's a tale as old as time. Conservatives fuck up so many things that they can't be fixed in the one term other parties occasionally get. And when those then fail to fix everything, people go "see? They're not better. Might as well vote conservative again."
If it helps to put it into more perspective. Those conservatives or CDU somewhat recently visited republicans in the US and figured that it might be a good idea to copy how they do politics in the US to apply it in Germany. But making noise is unfortunately what works even if it's not actually correct or an issue at all.
Not to mention they were kicked out of the Nazi group, because THEY WERE TOO EXTREME FOR THEM.
Wake me up in 5 years when we can hopefully stop this...
I have a horrible feeling that this is the beginning of a terrible slide. The racists will use this opportunity to be as obstructionist as they can and then scream in their home countries about how inefficient the EU is, and because the EU is so far away from home for most people, they'll believe them. And then we'll slide further.
Well, you can vote harder. The polls are not the only place you vote. Every purchase is a vote. Most people neglect their consumer power. I’m boycotting hundreds (if not thousands) of harmful companies and products, including Amazon. You can always vote harder by investigating the shops and brands you support. You can investigate whether your bank invests in the fossil fuel energy and change banks (or better, become unbanked). You can follow the !climate_action_individual community.
E.g. certainly one small thing @lurch can do is ditch sh.itjust.works for a different instance. Website weight has quadrupled since Cloudflare took hold because CF encourages web admins to create heavy websites. sh.itjust.works is CF-based.
My god... "Consumer power" is a myth, there's no evidence of it working for anything significant. "consumer power" will NOT help preventing the rise of the extreme right wing in Europe. Organize your workplace, create tight communities in your local area, strike and protest, create safety networks... Those are the things that are actually proven to work.
My god… “Consumer power” is a myth, there’s no evidence of it working for anything significant.
I guess you are not following Gaza. McDonalds in Israel decided to give free meals to Israeli soldiers. McDonalds customers who boycott Israel impacted McDonalds’ bottom line. And it’s a franchise. The McDonalds shops in Israel had different ownership than McDonalds outside Israel (where the boycott was impacting). So in response McDonalds HQ directly bought out all Israeli branches in order to stop the support to Israeli troops, just to protect their brand.
Lidl and Aldi both started taking a hit in Europe because their produce from Israel was being boycotted. Aldi got caught removing the origin label from their produce when Israel was the origin. Lidl got caught falsifying the label by displaying a different region. If the boycott was insignificant, there would be insufficient motivation for a grocery chain to commit fraud against their customers. So I boycott the whole Lidl chain and Aldi North, not just Israeli products.
Organize your workplace
Or boycott without organising, as this person did:
Boycotts only lack effect when in fact they are not executed. IOW, the apathy you advocate weakens the strength of boycotts. The shitty attitude that boycotts don’t work is the sole factor that disempowers boycotts from working.
ECR is shit, they're a bunch of eurosceptic, anti-immigration, libertarian conservative nationalists, but they don't hold a candle to ID, who are that, but on steroids.
Not sure if we should call them Nazi, as they kicked out the German Nazis, as explained in other comments.
Maybe call them nationalists or ultra nationalists?
They kicked out the German Nazis because they celebrated the SS, which is a no-go for French Nazis. Doesn't make them less Nazi, just the French kind that doesn't like to be killed by German Nazis
But what is a Nazi? I thought someone who praises or follows the idea and ideology of Hitler Germany.
So if someone says „ah this sounds too much like hitler or what is closest followers would say, therefore I dislike it“ can you then really call them a nazi? If someone think „this is to German“ can you be a nazi? After all Nazis where also German ultra nationalists, who think people who are not German are of less worthy.
So since other nationalistic parties follow this ideology, but just replace Germany by their own country, I think Ultra nationalists is better fitting.
You would also not say Japanese Nazis or Thailand Nazis. Or if you would say Argentinia Nazis, people who know should understand something very different.
Ah never thought about this origin. So Nazi means basically someone who supports Socialistic Nationalism, no matter for which country? !
Did not think about this but it makes sense.
Yeah, it's short for National Socialism which was just a rebranding of Fascism in Germany to get Workers on board. So I guess Fascism is the better term to use in any case but seriously, it's just different flavours of the same shit so I think it's a mood point to differentiate. They all support the same ideology and policies
I think the most important topic right now is confronting the climate change and the problems it is going to cause, on every level local, regional, national and international. This looming crisis is going to affect everything and everyone on an existential level, and requires every of these government levels, even every individual, to fucking work and to fucking stand together.
Yes but have you considered that brown people are to blame for all these things? And that they are also fictional lies by The Left (tm) to scare you away from the horrible brown people?
Also, it's clearly way more important that we let Chinese Intelligence Operations in broad daylight tell our youths to vote for nazis to destabilize the regions rather than peacefully coexist and solve out problems. After all, how else will we get communism if not that? /s
The whole "Fascism is coming from china!" thing is a conspiracy theory though, isn't it? Private media in the west are owned by western private media, not by Chinese psyops, and the funding that right wing influencers get in social media isn't from China either. The problem doesn't come from outside, it's literally inside.
China benefits from destabilizing the west (and India). Their online campaigns on various social media networks tend to promote misinformation, which correlates highly with conservative and far-right ideologies. TikTok in particular served as a pipeline into far right radicalization.
I'm not denying there is a problem within, and I'm not claiming China only pushes far right, but to claim that Chinese operations aren't noticeably impacting western politics in the most negative ways possible is just pure ignorance.
TikTok is originally Chinese, but most other social media is from the US. Would you argue that the rise of far-right content in YouTube, Facebook or Instagram is also a consequence of the Chinese government?
China's policy hasn't been to destabilize Europe, it's been to get closer commercially, for example with the Belt and Road initiative. Unless you bring further evidence than "TikTok is Chinese" (with it being the only Chinese social media we use), or "China benefits from it", it's nothing but speculation, which is absolutely unnecessary since the very far-right content creators from Europe and the US are from those countries and also funded by western organizations such as the Atlas Foundation.
I can't say exactly the scope of Chinese influence on YT or FB/IG, but we know they're 100% present. In fact, some time ago, CCP propaganda was flooding YT Shorts with machine generated content. We also know that FB have in the past been used for largescale campaigns to influence elections, they were fined 5 Billion USD by the FTC over the Cambridge Analytica scandal alone and pay similar fines frequently in Europe.
Yes, these sorts of operations are pretty commonly carried out by all of the world powers, but that's the highest form of whataboutism. It's a problem now that negatively affects us, it's not hypocritical to want to solve the problem. And China is #1 most problematic, in part because it's a top world power and a dictatorship and also because of the scale and frequency of their attacks on democracy.
China has been closing off it's commercial sector, recently. It plans to import less to allow their local corporations to dominate markets.
I can't say exactly the scope of Chinese influence on YT or FB/IG
We also know that FB have in the past been used for largescale campaigns to influence elections, they were fined 5 Billion USD by the FTC over the Cambridge Analytica scandal alone and pay similar fines frequently in Europe.
And China is #1 most problematic, [...] also because of the scale and frequency of their attacks on democracy.
Thank you for proving exactly my point that you're talking out of your ass, and you're capable of contradicting yourself in one comment
Climate change is literally on position 4 out of 5 for voters. People are absolute fucking morons and at this point I think we should just go extinct. This is ridiculous.
If you can't afford your bills you don't care about climate change.
Edit: I know, that climate change will only worsen your financial situation, but a lot of people don't see the long term effects on them and the economy.
Part of the reason why you can't afford your bills is climate change and it's going to get worse, doesn't prevent people from taking their car to drive 500m to drop their kids to school!
The human is primed for tribalism and these parties are exploiting that bug to offer the always-attractive solution of "this group of people is to blame". This time, it's Muslims and generally immigrants.
Well, the conservatives will sure help the little man to have more money in their pockets. (PSA: they won't)
Also, if the land you live on is flooded or dries out, you can't live there anymore. That's the far greater threat to peoples' existence. They just think they'll be among the lucky survivors and only some nasty brown people will die.
It seems anti-immigration is driving all these right wing votes. And xenophobia manifests from the naïve idea that immigrants will somehow reduce incomes.
If you can't afford your bills you don't care about climate change.
Well, then you should even more care about climate change. Like I said, morons.
But we all know that the rise of the far right isn't because of people's bills.
The Bad financial Situation of people is one reason why people tend to vote for the right wing parties. Its not the only one, but its part of the problem.
It's difficult to extinct us. If will take a thousand years of volcanoes, bad harvests, pandemics without vaccines, etc.
We're just so many now.
What's a lot faster is to wipe away the achievements of civilization, pushing us back into a state where starvation, disease and suffering are the norm and not the exception.
Well you thought wrong. What even gave you that idea?
Recent and older scandals have proven, that the authoritarians in Austria, Czechia and Germany (probably elsewhere too) are receiving money and orders from Putin. They're not even nationalists in that sense, they just love fascism. Even trump with all his "America first" bs loves Putin. All enemies of democracy will work together to dismantle it.
That's the thing, you think that because they keep saying they like their country more than the others, a foreign leader who hates and want harms to their country would be their enemy.
The truth is (1) they get a boner for the authoritarian way Putin leads Russia and (2) Putin treats them well because he knows that strengthening those parties weaken the country they're in.
Also Putin hates EU, and they hate EU. The difference is that Putin hates EU because he knows that European countries are stronger together.
I'm literally crying looking at this. People are mad that there are 8.6% of nazis, meanwhile, over here in Russia, there's like 7.8% reps in the upper house and <4% in the lower who might secretly NOT be a nazi. The rest are pretty open about it.
This is, traditional conservative parties starting to talk about cooperation with the far right, rather than with centrists. If you thought far right euroskeptics were cringe, just you wait to see the far right that wants to remodel the EU to their taste - and are capable of passing reforms.
While I am all for laughing at the 'Muricans for making themselves out to be the prime democratic nation on the planet while having the choice between a conservative and an ultra-conservative party only, this time, we cannot indulge in this kind of thing to feel superior. We need to make sure we actually stay superior now, which… isn't a given anymore.
Can someone knowledgeable here explain this projection in relation to green policies and carbon goals?
I assume they are now (even) less likely to be in form of mandates and we are moving towards 'capitalism (with a lil stimulus push here and there) will solve the problem it created'?
Tho maybe nuclear energy could also get a little bit more (re)renewed traction?
Also, the whole internet surveillance isn't going away now, is it?
The parties consistently voting in favor of green policies were Greens, Left and Socialdemocrats, with Liberals and independents varying wildly. Some decarbonization goals are still in place, but the new equilibrium may vote to revoke some of them and the actual laws to enforce them for good will likely not be passed.
The EU past a lot of actually good policy in the last term. Namely ban of fossil fuel cars 2035, limiting certificates for the EUs carbon market, new carbon market for transport and housing and a bunch of other laws, which actually have some positive impact. For the most part the EU parliament was not only in favour, but activly pushing for it being one of the most pro enviromental policy parliaments in the world. That is probably going to stop and they likely try to kill some of the laws passed. So the key in the future will be defence for most enviromental groups. The laws which have been passed will lower emissions, but not fast enough.
As for nuclear the EU is so far this year at 73.2% clean electricity. The large countries with a lot of fossil fuels are Poland, Italy and Germany. Of those only Poland is activly pushing for nuclear. The EU parliament is not able to force the other two to do that.
I think it is clear for most people that nuclear is not sustainable and only a short term solution. Now is actually a great opportunity to push for renewable energies also because it is important to get a foot into the market before China takes it all.
I don't think they really care if it's eco or not. It's a 20-30 year boondoggle during which time they can carry on burning fossil fuels while vetoing anything green under the pretence of "but the nuclear is already on the way".
And by the time the nuclear is built, it won't be enough (because of all the electric cars), so they'll carry on with the coal and gas anyway.
With the German Pirate Party loosing its seat a strong voice against surveilance is lost.
They also supplied NGOs with information directly from the legislative process, allowing them to act faster (and sometimes you have to be very fast to comment on minor changes with great effect) I hope somebody else at least partly takes on this role.
Can we take a moment to consider that everything is the fault of the Italians. The Italians, and only the Italians:
Why the hell are your polling stations open until 23:00? Who the hell votes at that time? Is it one of those "not cappuccino after 11 -- no voting before dusk" kind of superstitions? You're the reason we don't have proper projections yet!
Considering the next elections one should form a national party to expand pause times to multiple hours as well, so that we can bear 35 degree celcius in april 2029.
Either spains siesta approach or adapting italias layed-back attitude both sounds promising!!
Are the non-aligned a "party"that would rather not be named (on the right wing of things) or are they actually non aligned and would be better represented as being in the middle of this chart?
Different fractions, some of them are not aligned yet because they are new. However, for the biggest groups: 17 MEPs are the German AfD that was kicked out of the right-most group for being too Nazi, 11 MEPs are Fidesz (Orban) which is right-wing and the list goes on, so for the most part the position is mostly correct.
Putin is a former KGB agent. He's good at the things that the KGB were good at, because that's how he was trained. Foreign influence is one of those things that he's very good at thanks to that training, and Russia has been good at for a very long time, actually. So it's kind of one of Russia's core competencies.
Young voters did this, ironically enough, according to BBC World News. Young people struggling to get jobs after graduation think that right wing parties will fix that.
So as older generations are trying not to hand-off a burning planet to the young, the young are signing up for a burning planet under some delusion that right wingers will get them jobs. Schools have apparently failed to teach kids that the jobs they get under conservative governance are shit jobs -- lousy pay and lousy benefits.
The Nazi Party’s popularity increased in the early 1930s partly because of its pledge to do what no other political party had been able to accomplish: pull Germany out of the Great Depression and put Germans back to work.
