Where did AfD voters come from, and where did they go? Englisch

hannes3120 , vor 24 Tagen

Who are those 50.000 that went from green party to afd? What kind of reason could there possibly be for that?

Also interesting how it's the same as in the us where the answer to "how's the country doing economically" vastly depends on your news sources since only a very low amount of people in Germany are out of work, the Dax is hitting multiple records in recent months, the economy is growing, inflation is going down and the unions are achieving raises above the inflation level

But for some reason all you hear about is the food prizes which actually didn't increase that much compared to the normal shrinkflation. Or everyone was portraying how there would be disastrous power outages after the switch off of the atomic generators but nothing like that happened. Or how Germany had the lowest inflation amongst most European countries despite having the biggest dependency on russian gas because the political decisions made where actually really on point.

But for some reason nothing of this is reaching AFD voters so they keep ignorant and think the economy is failing.

Kind of similar to how regions with the fewest migrants are the most racist since the media has full control over the scare tactics targeted at them without any reality interfering

barsoap OP , vor 24 Tagen

Who are those 50.000 that went from green party to afd? What kind of reason could there possibly be for that?

Not to speculate too much but according to court records, Beate Zschäpe browsed Greenpeace news before setting the camper ablaze.

The German far-right has never been anti-environmentalist as such, much to the contrary: On the first Green party convention there were a lot of people who were of the opinion that not enough is being done for the German forest. Until they got kicked out with prejudice. It's the centre-right which likes to bury nuclear waste in leaky barrels in leaky salt mines.

hannes3120 , vor 24 Tagen

Yeah but the green party is like the official antagonist for the AfD

Of all the parties there are their favourite target to delegitimize at any possiblity

DarkThoughts , vor 24 Tagen

Not to speculate too much but according to court records, Beate Zschäpe browsed Greenpeace news before setting the camper ablaze.

Where the fuck did you get that nonsense?

The German far-right has never been anti-environmentalist as such, much to the contrary: On the first Green party convention there were a lot of people who were of the opinion that not enough is being done for the German forest. Until they got kicked out with prejudice. It's the centre-right which likes to bury nuclear waste in leaky barrels in leaky salt mines.

This is also bullshit. The AfD literally does not believe in climate change and wants to get the coal industry running again. The Greens are pretty much the number 1 enemy of the far right in Germany and everyone caring for the environment is seen as a menace, because the whole topic kinda became a left leaning political topic somehow (likely due to US politics).

barsoap OP , vor 24 Tagen

Where the fuck did you get that nonsense?

Public TV. Some documentary about the whole insanity that happened that day.

The AfD literally does not believe in climate change and wants to get the coal industry running again.

I never said anything to the contrary... well I guess I should've been more specific: Nazis were never anti-environmentalist as such. I think AfD climate denialism roots in their neoliberal history, when Nazis took over they didn't change it because they're not planning on doing anything in their programme once in power, anyway, and it's politically convenient.

DarkThoughts , vor 24 Tagen

Public TV.

In Russia?

barsoap OP , vor 24 Tagen (Bearbeitet vor 24 Tagen)

Germany. Greenpeace was quite prominent in her browser history. She's a murderous fascist assclown doesn't mean she doesn't care about the whales, and whatever. Hitler loved dogs. How is this surprising or unbelievable to you.

...and, ok, fine, I'll get you a source. Not the original documentary (probably depublished), have a taz article:

4. November 2011: Uwe Mundlos und Uwe Böhnhardt liegen tot in einem Wohnmobil in Eisenach. Das Ende der Terrorzelle NSU, nach dreizehn Jahren. 181 Kilometer östlich, in der Frühlingsstraße 26 in Zwickau-Weißenborn, sucht die Benutzerin „Liese“ am Computer nach Nachrichten. „Liese“ ist einer der Alias-Namen von Beate Zschäpe. Wie sie vom Tod ihrer Kumpanen erfährt, ist immer noch unklar. Aber irgendwie muss sie es mitbekommen haben. Nun flieht sie. Kurz vorher tippt „Liese“ noch einen Satz in das Suchfeld des Internetbrowsers: „wohin kann ich sicher spenden“. Sie geht auf Seiten der Diakonie, eines Tierheims, von Greenpeace.

She set her apartment ablaze, not the camper with the other two dead Nazis inside, I misremembered that one.

DarkThoughts , vor 24 Tagen

lmao
So we went from "browsing Greenpeace news" to "she was visiting a website of an animal shelter". And no, Hitler did not love dogs. You're just continuing to spew far right propaganda bullshit here to push a narrative.

Blondi played a role in Nazi propaganda by portraying Hitler as an animal lover. Dogs like Blondi were coveted as "germanische Urhunde", being close to the wolf, and became very fashionable during the Nazi era. On 29 April 1945, one day before his death, Hitler expressed doubts about the cyanide capsules he had received through Heinrich Himmler's SS. To verify the capsules' potency, Hitler ordered Dr. Werner Haase to test one on Blondi, who died as a result.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blondi

barsoap OP , vor 23 Tagen

lmao So we went from “browsing Greenpeace news” to “she was visiting a website of an animal shelter”.

No, she went to Greenpeace. She also went to one for an animal shelter. Also, what I linked to is a mere corroborating source.

poVoq Mod , vor 24 Tagen

Who are those 50.000 that went from green party to afd? What kind of reason could there possibly be for that?

Misguided pacifists that believe that the AfD would negotiate a peace deal with Putin in Ukraine. I personally know some like that... who just barely stopped short of admitting they considered voting for the AfD because of that.

hannes3120 , vor 24 Tagen

I would imagine those would go vote for the Bündnis Sarah Zarenknecht instead

poVoq Mod , vor 24 Tagen

Sure, mostly. But especially in east Germany there are some with a deep aversion against voting for "communists", which is why they voted Green and not LINKE before.

trollercoaster , vor 24 Tagen

the Dax is hitting multiple records in recent months, the economy is growing, inflation is going down and the unions are achieving raises above the inflation level

Stock market figures only benefit the wealthy. It is an entirely meaningless figure for measuring the economic situation of a country's population.

inflation is going down

Inflation "going down" doesn't mean there is no more inflation. It only means that there is less inflation than before.

the unions are achieving raises above the inflation level

Only a minority of the German workforce is even represented by those unions, also, most of them barely managed to get raises covering the recent inflation. Inflation adjusted salaries in Germany have been stagnating and even shrinking for decades now, so whatever has been achieved by the few unions isn't really that impressive in the long run.

The reality of the majority of people in Germany is vastly different from what you are describing.

geissi , vor 24 Tagen

Inflation “going down” doesn’t mean there is no more inflation. It only means that there is less inflation than before

Keep in mind that "inflation going down" is usually shorthand for the year-on-year inflation rate going down.
If the yoy inflation rate goes down from one month to the next, then prices are still higher than previous year but may very well have fallen since last month.

Badeendje , vor 24 Tagen

Massive difference in perception, or actual effects for the voters. Cause they seem to be mainly situated in east Germany.

Johanno , vor 24 Tagen

A lot of high earning people vote for AgD too

Badeendje , vor 24 Tagen

I'll bet. I'm not German but I saw the maps of where the afd vote was geographically. And have some knowledge of German history so I asked the question in Ernest.

nightwatch_admin , vor 24 Tagen

Hemington approves

barsoap OP , vor 24 Tagen

Might have a lot to do with the relative state of infrastructure and, generally, their surroundings.

That is, you might be personally fine off economically, but you're seeing abandoned buildings all over the place, the trams are run down, and the schools have leaky roofs because the municipality has no money because half of the population moved west and all the infrastructure is oversized.

Meanwhile, the stereotypical Green voter is living in a city driving their Cayenne to the horse pasture enjoying the quaint surroundings. (I mean of course you need an SUV you're towing the horse once every two years)

DarkThoughts , vor 24 Tagen

That is, you might be personally fine off economically, but you're seeing abandoned buildings all over the place, the trams are run down, and the schools have leaky roofs because the municipality has no money because half of the population moved west and all the infrastructure is oversized.

Same thing in the West. Infrastructure is not that far behind in the East actually, so this is a bit of a myth. Generally German infrastructure has been suffering a lot over the past couple decades, also thanks to the 16 years of the Union not wanting to spend money on anything important. But I guess voters forgot that already.

barsoap OP , vor 24 Tagen

Over here in SH urbanisation is actually reversing a bit. Only a bit, but on average villages aren't dealing with a draining population any more. Lots of really small places that have issues, but OTOH the people there drive regularly to some village populous enough to have a supermarket and see that it's quite stable. Just don't ever visit Neumünster.

And I also think that plays into the "great replacement" perception: There's a difference when a place of say 20k gets 100 refugees and that's it vs. getting 100 refugees and 1000 leaving to work elsewhere. Still nowhere close to rightoid conspiracy narratives, of course, but the incline of the curve looks quite different, it's much easier to spin a narrative out of such a situation.

trollercoaster , vor 24 Tagen (Bearbeitet vor 24 Tagen)

also thanks to the 16 years of the Union not wanting to spend money on anything important.

Actually that's way too short sighted, Austerity became German state religion much longer ago. Neoliberal sell-out and wholesale neglect of public property and infrastructure started under Helmut Kohl, and was seamlessly continued under Schröder to be equally seamlessly continued under Merkel and Scholz just went on with it, too. There is no large political party in Germany that is innocent of this crime.

Now that they have collectively sold out and run down the country and are doing little to nothing to remedy their past mistakes crimes, they are acting surprised that this is driving people into the arms of Nazi demagogues.

It's still deplorable to vote for the Nazi scum that is the AfD, but propaganda is a powerful tool and the Nazis are deliberately targeting those who have been shat on by the political establishment for decades by now. That their propaganda is a bunch of lies and they are only going to sell out the country and its people some more doesn't matter. People are stupid and easy to convince with propaganda. Keep in mind how the education system is a part of the public infrastructure that has been continuously and systematically neglected and sold out for almost half a century by now.

Badeendje , vor 24 Tagen

For east Germany it also does not help that within an hours drive you cross an arbitrary meaningless line but on the other side of it people will work for cents on the euro. So companies will not go where the higher wages are to be paid.

This also does not help the us and them rhetoric.

And yes, the left seems so hyperfocussed on migrants and citizens with a migrant background in their rhetoric that they alienate a lot of people that feel like they are not represented by that left. And this translates to.. so they are spending all the money on the brown people and nothing is left for us... While in reality everyone is fucked... Except a very small group.

trollercoaster , vor 24 Tagen

That's one of the problems of the Greens, they and their voters are largely a relatively wealthy urban bubble who see three trees and think that's nature. That's why a lot of their environmental policy is based on greenwashing shit like CO2 certificate trading and subsidies to new electric cars only rich people can afford in the first place.

TheFriendlyDickhead , vor 24 Tagen

CO2 certificates don't attempt to greenwash, but to artificially give pollution a price. That way companies have a financial incentive to lower their CO2 pollution. And at the end of the day money is all companies care about.

barsoap OP , vor 23 Tagen

The whole system is a joke if there's too many certificates around, though, for whatever reason.