Bremmy ,

That must have been the cop who tackled the wrong person. RIP

nivenkos ,

Nothing to see here, just a brain surgeon enriching the local population.

Wake up Europe.

rikudou ,

Ah, another point for the religion of peace.

footoro ,

Is there actually someone still moderating feddit.de? Comments like this make me think I’m in the Fox News comment section.

CAVOK OP ,

I think more moderators are needed.

poVoq Mod ,
@poVoq@slrpnk.net avatar

You are volunteering? This community indeed needs more moderators.

CAVOK OP ,

I think I'd make a very poor moderator. I think I'd make a better contribution to the community by submitting links.

Zozano ,

I'm critical of all religions.

However, in the past ten years, there is a pattern of violence against people who are critical of Islam.

There isn't another religion I'm scared of criticising publicly.

footoro ,

There’s much more than that a pattern of systemic discrimination against Muslims in the Western world that resembles anti-Semitic conspiracy theories before the Nazi time. It’s very scary.

It’s perfectly fine to be critical of all religions. What’s not fine of course is violence from any side. However, this „religion of peace“ comment is just a very common dogwhistle used by the far right to imply that being a Muslim makes you a violent and dangerous person per se.

Zozano ,

I think saying "religion of peace" is about as much of a dog whistle as "there's no hate like Christian love".

Obviously, not all Christians are overtly judgemental assholes, and not all Muslims are terrorists.

The ones who suffer most from Islam, are the Muslims who live under its theocracy, whether they realise it or not.

rikudou ,

Oh, I'm far from far right. I'm actually slightly left and I mean the real left, not the American one. I don't think that being a muslim means you're a terrorist. I just don't see any other group committing so many murders in Europe. And very explicitly in the name of islam.

I don't hide from facts when they don't suit me. Prove me wrong and I'll happily publicly apologize.

poVoq Mod ,
@poVoq@slrpnk.net avatar

Look up extreme right-wing murders, they are significantly more than islamist ones in Europe.

Brevik alone probably killed more people than all islamists (in Europe) in the same year combined.

Localhorst86 ,

feddit.de has had massive database problems for like 2 months now. It's not accessible via the default web interface, only via third party (web)apps. It's very likely that moderation of feddit.de communities has been increasingly difficult for the mods.

rikudou ,

Seriously? You'd want me moderated for that comment?

Can you really only exist within echo chambers online?

If it calms you down a bit, I view Christianity pretty much the same.

Zozano ,

One of the biggest failures of the left is its reactionary defence of Islam (as a religion).

Any honest criticism of Islam is branded Islamophobia (similarly to how any criticism of Israel is conflated with antisemitism).

Regardless of whether one wants to blame the Quran, or the cultures of Muslim communities - the fact remains that people get killed in non-Muslim majority countries for trivial shit.

I could draw a picture of Jesus sucking off Joseph Smith and I don't need to worry about Mormons coming to kill me.

poVoq Mod ,
@poVoq@slrpnk.net avatar

The likelihood of some mentally disturbed person killing you for something like that is about equally high for Muslims or Mormons: i.e extremely low.

But if it is a Muslim, you can be sure the right-wing media is full of it.

Zozano , (Bearbeitet )

You cannot say they are equally high when:

12 people were killed for publishing a cartoon of Muhammad.

A teacher was beheaded for showing a drawing of Muhammad.

Cartoonist drew Muhammad, leading to Danish embassies being attacked and riots broke out and people died. Later, people broke into his house to try to kill him.

Cartoonist had to live under police protection because of threats.

Creators of South Park were threatened for including Muhammad in an episode of the show.

These were just a few from the FIRST PAGE of a search engine, AND outside of Muslim majority countries.

If you still think there's an equal chance of violence against you, then I dare you to draw Muhammad and publish it with your real name.

!don't actually do this, I don't want to be responsible for anyone dying.!<

This is before even considering every other 'provocation', leading to incidences like:

Salman Rushdie being stabbed on stage

A teacher forced into hiding for showing a picture of mahammad

RidderSport ,

Right so you're answering the argument that killings by muslim are overrepresented in media by quoting search engine results?
If you actually want factual numbers you'd need to take a look at the criminal data from you country.

Zozano ,

Do you think there's an argument to be made that Boeing's aeroplane failures are overrepresented in media?

What a stupid thing to say.

I don't need to crunch any numbers; the links are right there, the murderers EXPLICITLY state they did it because the person insulted their religion.

I challenge you to find me more than one example of a murder which was deliberately invoked because someone insulted a holy person from another religion over the last ten years.

poVoq Mod ,
@poVoq@slrpnk.net avatar

Yes, Boeing's failures are vastly overrepresented in media if you compare it deaths caused by cars for example. It's really stupid to be afraid of Boeing planes, but not of cars.

And there are litterally thousands of murders caused by right-wing ideology, which is almost indistinguishable from extremist islamism. Look up some actual data on that and you will see that this is a much bigger danger in "non-muslim majority" countries. But you probably don't care because you are personally not their target 😑

Zozano ,

You're missing the forest for the trees.

There are thousands of murders caused by right-wing ideology (Islam is also a right-wing ideology), but the difference is nobody is trying to kill me because I say Nazis are bad, or Trump is a dickhead.

And about Boeing... The failures are not vastly overrepresented, they are represented exactly as they are. If a car manufacturer had as many faults as Boeing, then yes, they would get equal airtime. In this analogy, wouldn't it be fucking insane if people were being killed for criticising Boeing?

poVoq Mod ,
@poVoq@slrpnk.net avatar

nobody is trying to kill me because I say Nazis are bad

That is demonstratably false, people get attacked and killed for saying exactly that.

You really need to get out of your right-wing media bubble.

And the Boeing whistleblowers suspiciously died recently 🤔

Zozano , (Bearbeitet )

Demonstrate it then? Show me an example of someone attempting to kill another because they drew a comic of Trump or Hitler, or were critical.

I don't have a right-wing media bubble. Only one of those articles was from a right-wing news outlet, but that doesn't make it false.

Yes, Boeing whistleblowers suspiciously died recently, and people are noticing, and are being critical of Boeing, as they should - and that's a good thing.

poVoq Mod ,
@poVoq@slrpnk.net avatar

Now it suddenly needs to be the very specific case of drawing a comic 🙄 You are moving goalposts, because you can't deny that there have been a lot of right-wing motivated murders.

Zozano ,

Killing people for drawing comics IS right-wing motivated murder.

And no, its not moving goal posts because it's the example I've been giving this whole time to illustrate the insanity on display.

I did however offer you a slight concession when I said "or were critical".

Here's the thing, you cannot provide examples which are comparable to the insanity being projected by Islamists.

poVoq Mod ,
@poVoq@slrpnk.net avatar

You mean killing people because they have a different skin color is not even more insane?

Zozano ,

Now, I don't believe you're arguing in good faith.

Skin colour is not just skin colour, it has implications about ethnicity, which is agreeably insane, but the whole point I've been arguing about is that I am critical of all religions.

heres a link so you dont imply im movong goalposts.

Can you provide any examples of any other religions, outside of their religious-majority countries, where their followers act as extremely, for as small of a reason?

poVoq Mod ,
@poVoq@slrpnk.net avatar

More moving goalposts. Sorry, but you are not arguing in good faith.

Zozano ,

Did you just ban me lol.

What a loser.

RidderSport ,

You are literally ignoring what I am saying. I've answered to the thread where you were answering the argument of mentally insane people kill as much as islamists, but the latter are more represented by the media by searching for headlines on a search engine. Nothing else, I've not actually challenged the argument of islamists completely overreacting at people insulting their believes.

Though just to clarify, while sceptism toward religion is always warranted, insulting someone's believes is arguably a no-go as well.

But you're obviously on a slippery slope towards the right. There have been plenty of violent attacks on politicians in the past few months in Germany alone. And they didn't even have to say anything against the attackers ideology

Zozano ,

One of the mods banned be because of a disagreement. Don't be surprised if I don't reply after this (means I got banned again) So I'm replying here:

I guess we're just talking past one another.

I am not talking about how represented Islamic terrorism is, at all - whether it is reported in the news or not, it's besides any point I'm making.

It simply is a fact that murdering due to drawing cartoons is not a life or death matter for any other religious group (or any other claims, like Muhammad being a paedophile).

poVoq Mod ,
@poVoq@slrpnk.net avatar

You were temporarily banned because you were arguing in bad faith and constantly moved goalposts. And now you got banned again for ban-evasion.

poVoqSUCKS ,

Shove your ban up your ass. You're a power tripper who silences people with a different opinion.

You constantly moved the conversation AWAY from religious groups, AND engaged in whataboutism.

You're a poor debator, a shitty moderator, and a sore loser. Get fucked.

poVoqEatsCock ,

Punish me harder, daddy

poVoq Mod ,
@poVoq@slrpnk.net avatar

Arguing against a media bias by showing search results from media that confirm that bias 🙄

Zozano ,

I was never arguing against media bias, so, whatever I guess.

poVoq Mod ,
@poVoq@slrpnk.net avatar

No one bothered to report this and/or federated reports are broken so that I didn't get any reports. But don't complain about the lack of moderation if you don't report things you think should be moderated.

footoro , (Bearbeitet )

I reported quite a bit. I assume it’s because of the federation thing then. I wasn’t aware of that.

There’s not only subtle dogwhistles like this one that are commonly used in social media to imply that being a Muslim automatically makes you violent and dangerous.

But there’s also a guy in another thread arguing that the far right extremist Michael Stürzenberger is indeed a good guy. He got attacked with a knife, something I don’t support. But Stürzenberger is certainly a Nazi who got convicted e.g. for incitement to hatred and who got observed by the authorities for being an enemy of democracy.
Those are the facts, when I pointed that out, said person got offended and said that I’m very biased. Another person also got offended that I called the guy a Nazi. You may think it’s opinion vs opinion but some of the stuff they posted and I reported was just straight misinformation.

The mere fact that there’s several people in here who know this insignificant group and want to defend it shows me that this community is already being infiltrated by Nazis.

You may think I’m panicking or biased or whatever but I know the situation in Germany quite well and if these people show up you have limited time until they drive away all your normal users.

Kaboom ,

This fails to mention the terrorist was a muslim.

mal3oon ,

At least they made sure to highlight the rally is anti-muslim. It's just funny following the reporting on the incident so far, as everyone saw the video, how obvious is the bias and tiptoeing around the fact that this was a religiously motivated attack against "anti-islam" activists. But due to the mental gymnastic that does not fit the narrative of doctors and engineers migrants.

footoro , (Bearbeitet )

The people the guy attacked were Nazis. They are not anti-Islam activists, they are Nazis. This is not an anti-Muslim rally, this is a Nazi rally.

Violence is always wrong, and so is your dogwhistling.

mal3oon ,

The people the guy attacked were Nazis. The are not anti-Islam activists, they are Nazis. This is not an anti-Muslim rally, this is a Nazi rally.

Shtop right there, do you have a loicense for that gigantic hyperbolic lie sir? Like serious define your view of "Nazism" for me, if I want to stretch beyond a national movement, I would say probably islamophobic or xenophobic, but then again that says nothing much, but you know what, islamophibia would have saved that cop's life in retrospect.
Because they are literally anti-Nazis. Funnily enough, they see Islam as Nazism due to Sharia being close to a lot of tenant of Islam (superiority, discrimination, etc ...), and their activity was mainly protesting anti-jihad islamization. So how is this bad again? Explain this to an ex-muslim please. Luckily there are videos showing clearly what happened so even if you want to still live in denial at least no one will believe your delusional take hopefully, and equating killing someone and stabbing with dogwhisling is absolutely nuts. I would prefer to be dogwhistled any day over getting stabbed.

footoro ,

I only see a lot of mental gymnastics to make it sound like Michael Stürzenberger would be somehow a good guy? He is a convicted extremist e.g. for incitement to hatred, who was under surveillance for plotting to overthrow democracy for many many years. He held up pictures of Goebbels among other things.

mal3oon ,

The way you phrase it is so biased to make the guy look like he's the worst evil person ever.
So I looked him up, and here is what I gathered:

  • He staunch anti-islam (kudos from me, as ex-muslim, he 100% onto something).
  • His activism centered around exactly this cause and has been attacked many times by Muslims, funny enough your people care more about "words" but actual violence? That's fine as long as it's against "hate". The funny thing is that these incidents targeted against him, makes his case even stronger: Islam is a violent religion that does not tolerate any criticism and is incompatible the open German/western society, that thrives on improvement.

So the guy's experience, and especially the recent incident, just confirm what he's preaching, Islam preaches violence against those who criticise it, and is incompatible with western culture and if it grows would present a threat to Germany. Christianity is the largest religion in Germany, yet, you rarely ever hear about violent attacks against its critics. There sure must be a reason, no? And before you jump on the "muh racism bandwagon", skin color has nothing to do with it. It's its religious culture of death, because in Islam, it's an honor to die fighting the kuffar for your Allah, so you can get a better placement in heaven and of course those 72 houris. Germany failed at assimilating lots of refugees that came in the last 10 years, and it's effects are showing.

He held up pictures of Goebbels among other things.

Below his wikipedia:

In May 2013, Stürzenberger was acquitted for the charge of having shown a poster with an image and quote of Heinrich Himmler at a demonstration to prove the similarity between Nazism and Islam.[31] He was sentenced to a fine of 800 euros in July 2013 for insulting a police officer by telling him to "Ach, leck mich doch am Arsch",[32] and to 2,500 euros in 2014 for calling Islam a "cancer" on the Politically Incorrect blog, for which he was acquitted in 2017.[33] He was sentenced to a four months conditional prison sentence and 960 euros in 2015 for saying that all Muslims are potential terrorists at a Pegida rally,[34] and to a suspended sentence of half a year in prison in November 2017 for sharing a photo on Facebook of a ranking Nazi shaking hands with the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem Amin al-Husseini.[35] In December 2017 he was sentenced to a fine of 2,400 euros for incitement to hatred, after he spoke of an "invasion" from the Islamic world at a Pegida event in 2015.[36]

Kaboom ,

Oh so they advocate for another holocaust? Somehow I doubt theyre actually nazis. Methinks this is another case of anyone right of Stalin is considered a nazi.

footoro ,

Yes they are Nazis and the Nazis in Germany have met in secret to plot deporting people to Africa that are not German enough, this includes German citizens whose blood is not pure enough according to their definition.

I honestly don’t understand this comment section. The leader of these people is a convicted extremist who was under surveillance for many many years. He is a nazi and wants to overthrow democracy.

On the other hand there was a Muslim bystander trying to stop the guy, a Muslim police officer stopping the guy and a Muslim paramedic treating the attacked. I wonder why you don’t care about that being mentioned.

Kaboom ,

If youre so not German to the point you stab people, maybe you should be deported for not being german enough.

footoro ,

And there you go, this is the guy who received 60 upvotes for his comment about wanting to emphasize that the attacker was Muslim.

Kaboom ,

I feel like not wanting to be stabbed is reasonable. Do you not?

eatthecake ,

The guys he stabbed want to deport him to afghanistan (they want to send all migrants back to where they came from), i'd want to stab anyone who tried to send me to afghanistan. I don't agree with the stabbing, but i think it sort of makes sense from a general self defense perspective.

RidderSport ,

Right, so if I understand you correctly, Germans don't stab people. What do we do to kill someone then? Gas them or start a world war? The offender ought to really used Zyklon B

CAVOK OP ,

It also fails to mention that the organising group is far right. So maybe it evens out?

ByroTriz ,

I mean, the officer was not killed by a protestor. If you read the title it seems that it was the group's fault

CAVOK OP ,

Not to take any blame away from the terrorist, but this is what the organisers hope for.

And Putin is jumping with joy. Anything that divide us is good for him. Wouldn't surprise me if Russia funded the organisers.

WbrJr ,

The german right wing Party AFD have or at least had connections and i think some payment with russia. Some oft thr AFD folks even got asked to come to russia as "democratic experts" for the last election.. Such a fucked up party

CAVOK OP ,

And people still vote for them. Infuriating.

nivenkos ,

Wouldn’t surprise me if Russia funded the organisers.

Hardly, Russia is pro-Islam - they've met Hamas and are working with Iran.

They are part of the Islamic Axis of evil.

CAVOK OP ,

Russia isn't pro Islam. Russia is funding everything that could cause trouble for the west. Actually it wouldn't surprise me if Russia funded both sides just to create conflict.

Russia funding the far right is well established.

RidderSport ,

They are so pro-islam that they in fact welcome the terror attack in Moscow a few weeks back - though frankly Putin probably does

Kaboom ,

Sounds like victim blaming to me. You should be able to protest without worrying about a terrorist attack.

crispy_kilt ,

Not if it's Nazis doing the protesting.

Kaboom ,

What if its not-nazis protesting nazis?

Duke_Nukem_1990 ,

What if your grandma was a bicycle?

Duxon ,

No.

PhlubbaDubba ,

Because the reasons are the last thing you should report on in a terrorist attack?

Getting their word out is literally the entire reason they did a terrorism, publicizing that info is literally assisting the terrorists.

As far as responsible reporting should be concerned, all terrorists are of the same cloth, scum, and they can all die mad together about all being seen as the same.

Kaboom ,

Its a very specific cloth theyre cut from, and that cloth has made it clear what the plan is. I feel like noting its muslim is part of reporting the news.

The way it reads now is victim blaming.

Mrkawfee ,

I know he was a Muslim because otherwise he would have been called "mentally ill" rather than a terrorist.

barsoap ,

They mentioned a possible Islamist motive. Which is an important distinction to make because the Westboro Baptist Church doing something is not the same as some random Christian doing something.

Also, you're reading France24. Sticking with state media, but this time German, DW has more:

Investigators earlier said the suspect was an Afghan citizen who had been resident in Germany for around a decade. He had no criminal record and had not come to law enforcement's attention in the past, they said.

The suspect was eventually shot by police. As of Saturday evening, he was alive but in the hospital and in no fit state to be interrogated, according to investigators. As a result, they said, his motives and the reason for his attack required further investigation.

olafurp ,

I think the word "terrorist" is not a good word here. It was a mentally ill individual with an unknown motive.

Kaboom ,

Id argue that almost every terrorist is mentally ill.

He was a muslim who attacked an anti-islamic rally. Seems like a pretty clear motive to me.

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