geography082 , vor 22 Tagen

Hexbear is how all communities should be in Lemmy .

yogthos , vor 22 Tagen

https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/14e30b94-5511-42d3-ac8e-16013cf46091.jpeg

Sgt_choke_n_stroke , vor 22 Tagen

The "everyone's a tankie who disagrees with me" I'm convinced is a new meme.

Cowbee , vor 22 Tagen

That's what happens when you defederate from pro-Marxist instances. Zionists and anti-Communists start joining this anti-Marxist space and you have a whole new Red Scare on your hands.

DragonTypeWyvern , vor 22 Tagen

Shitlibs gonna shitlib

Tankies gonna tank

davel , vor 22 Tagen

Reporter: [REDACTED]
Reason: Spam or Abuse

Reporter is having a bad time on lemmy.ml, what more evidence do you need?

Cowbee , vor 22 Tagen

That's just sad, haha.

davel , vor 22 Tagen

https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/41da2baf-5d68-4970-a7f5-ecd27edaad1e.jpeg

Grayox , vor 22 Tagen

More pixels plz

myself , vor 22 Tagen

Actually can't tell if this was made by a tankie or a sane person and I love it

Cowbee , vor 22 Tagen

They answered on the original post.

10_0 , vor 22 Tagen

Tankies keep on posting walls of texts in !memes about communism, or was it the liberals, anyway people i don't like are posting walls of text about communism in !memes... I love this post, for next time can you draw some conclusions about the survey so I don't have to think to hard about these numbers, I can't count past 10.

Dippy , vor 23 Tagen

I've never seen a set of graphs with so few labels for everything it was showing

Jean_le_Flambeur , vor 23 Tagen

Are tankies conspiring to repeat the "tankie is a meaningless term" mantra till someone believes them?

Cowbee , vor 23 Tagen

I've seen Anarchists called "tankie" so at this point it either needs to be entirely redefined or done away with. Even suggesting people to read Marx can get you called a tankie these days.

Jean_le_Flambeur , vor 23 Tagen

So if I call a car a giraffe the word giraffe looses its meaning and becomes invalid?

Misusage of terms doesn't cancel out the concept these words refer to lul

If it would in would just call my bake rolls fascists, so the fascists go away

Cowbee , vor 22 Tagen

What is a "tankie?" Every person gives a different definition. It's like "woke."

DragonTypeWyvern , vor 22 Tagen

And woke also has a meaning conservative dbags can't steal.

Jean_le_Flambeur , vor 22 Tagen

Please refer to the other 3 times in this thread where I defined it, I suppose you are able to scroll 1-2 screens up

Cowbee , vor 22 Tagen

What would have been the non-tankie response to the Bay of Pigs?

Are liberals tankies because of the Kent State massacre? What about the American Civil War?

The same is obviously true of South Korea for their slaughter of leftists and pro-democracy liberals in Gwang-Ju via the Army.

Same also goes to Israel for murdering their own hostages and slaughtering Palestinians, and the US for supporting it.

Your answer is nice in that it's a definitive metric we can track, unlike vibes-based answers I usually see. However, it is extremely broad in scope.

Jean_le_Flambeur , vor 21 Tagen (Bearbeitet vor 21 Tagen)

You are not making a point by asking those questions...

If you think those where legitimate actions but generally think of yourself not as an authoritarian kind of person and in your book you don't fall under the definition of tankie, you may very well think so.

I believe many people would argue that if you are in favor of any kind of violence against the own civil populations with the army this brings you over the edge. But even if so, this doesn't make you as as person atankie, no questions asked, case done.

You can be generally against nuclear power except in one very specific case, scientific long time submarines for example, this doesn't make you a nuclear enthusiast.
In my oppinion its the same with tankie, but if you find an excuse for every or nearly all instances (by socialist/left/eastern block) it paints a picture that suggests you may be generally in favor of such measures if they are done by an entity you sympathise with, which would make the term fitting in my opinion

If you believe the term can refer to entities who are not on the left wing side of the political spectrum, you may be in a minority. But one could of course take those positions... I would strongly disagree with this one personally though, and I don't think this is how a lot of people use the term. I think most people use it to describe a portion of the socialist/communist spectrum, again the boundary is blurry but the direction is quite clear. (which gives you the answer for most of your questiom btw.)

Now let's turn the table:

Do you think the terms "left-wing" and "right-wing" are meangless/useless?

If not could you please define them for me?

Edit: some typos
Also: you keep referring to states, which of course helps some ways of your argumentation but I think its mostly used for people, not nations

Cowbee , vor 21 Tagen

It is my opinion that all violent events must be judged within their context and on a case by case basis. The Cuban government absolutely should have stopped the Bay of Pigs, while Chun Doo-Hwan absolutely should not have butchered his people.

As for Authoritarian, the word is usually thrown against Socialists without backing up what it means. If I say I am in favor of a Socialist Republic, which extends Democratic control to Production and eliminates the idea of the Wealthy influencing the state, does that make me an Authoritarian? Yes, according to those abusing the word Tankie.

For your question, leftism is support for Socialism and movements towards it, while rightism is support for Capitalism and movements towards it.

Jean_le_Flambeur , vor 21 Tagen

Cool that that's your opinion, I have the opinion that one can generally judge actions by their nature. In my opinion raping someone is bad, Using nuclear warheads is bad, using the military against (any) civilians is bad, and especially if it is against your own people they are supposed to protect.

This doesnt mean I have to have a black and white opinion which will never under any circumstances change, but I generally condemned such actions. The goal in my opinion must always be to move towards a peacefull and just society without oppression, if the outcome is the killing/opressing of your own people there is something fundamentally flawed with the system which needs to be addressed.

To play the game:

I have seen people call capitalists "left" because they wanna make "social democracy" capitalism, I have seen people called right wing who literally wanted a dictatorship without markets.
Those terms can refer to anything an are meaningless in today's discourse.

What would you do when the "doppelte ausrufung der republic" happens in Germany? Would you say the socialists there where right wing because a lot of them were in favor of (deeply controlled) capitalistic markets?

--> you see, those ways of argumenting simply don't actually make a point.

MiraculousMM , vor 23 Tagen

What is your definition of a tankie

Jean_le_Flambeur , vor 23 Tagen

Tankie: Someone who is authoritarian to a degree he sees using the army (tanks) against the own civilian population as a valid and legitimate action.
Sometimes used as slur by people against those measures (or generally highly authoritarian top down approaches of state theory) or as (positive) self reference by people in favor of such measures (or generally highly authoritarian top down approaches of state theory)

linkhidalgogato , vor 23 Tagen

u can no more define tankie than you can define woke.

Jean_le_Flambeur , vor 23 Tagen (Bearbeitet vor 22 Tagen)

Woke: from civil right movement, someone who is weary of loyalty to the state and instead examines society/policy/politics himself. - in modern times used as slur against progressive and ecological conscious people by right wing people.

Tankie: Someone who is authoritarian to a degree he sees using the army (tanks) against the own civilian population as a valid and legitimate action.
Sometimes used as slur by people against those measures (or generally highly authoritarian top down approaches of state theory) or as (positive) self reference by people in favor of such measures (or generally highly authoritarian top down approaches of state theory)

Don't know what your problem is defining both.

EDIT: Not to be confused with "I know exactly who a tankie is and who isn't - my definition is 100% correct" or even "there are exact boundaries and conditions to what a tankie is"

Its like "peace", " progressive", "right-wing", different people will give you different definitions, my point is, that there is a concept to which the word refers and different interpretations/ambiguities don't render the term useless simply by existing.

GeneralVincent , vor 21 Tagen

Yeah, a bunch of people misuse both 'woke' and 'tankie' as just insults so both seem to lose meaning. Especially with politically charged words, I think leftists have a knee jerk reaction to being mislabeled a tankie and come to the conclusion that it is meaningless and not just misused.

Thr word tankie even has a wiki page

I think it's a useful term, saying authoritarian communist is just too wordy.

Empathy , vor 22 Tagen

I'm pretty damn left leaning and I've never been called a tankie. I rarely even see anyone being called a tankie, except people who are defending authoritarians. The scope of the word "tankie" seemed generally pretty clear to me.

Jean_le_Flambeur , vor 22 Tagen (Bearbeitet vor 21 Tagen)

Same, never experinced problems with misusage of the term (in real life).
When i mentioned this in another thread, someone chimed in and stayed they were experiencing it constantly for no reason and also leftist around him would be called that. Later that discussion it was revealed that he thinks everyone who doesn't agree with Stalins policy is not (true) left....

I hear waaaaayyy more complaining about the term tankie from actual tankies than I hear people using it as a general slur against left people.

Facebones , vor 20 Tagen

I get called a tankie pretty frequently for anything vauguely left of biden on Lemmy. Ive never heard the term IRL, but I HAVE been called a communist IRL two or three times for saying a 40 hour work week should cover a basic level of housing.

Jean_le_Flambeur , vor 20 Tagen

HM... Are you defending (authoriatharian) policys of historical socialism a lot? Because i am in the the left side of the political spectrum too, and didn't have this experience on Lemmy. Maybe its because I frequent European. Communities more often, where there is not so much red scare as in America.

I have also beend called a communist, also in real life, but this wasn't meant as an insult but as a description. I argument in favor of a democracy without capitalism, maybe with councils (strange that there seems to be no English word for "rätesystem" which doesn't involve worker or soldiers, which is to exclusive IMO), so calling me a communist/socialist is understandable and (apart from some very rare instances) wasn't meant to discredit me.

I have never been called a tankie though, and have never (even online) seen someone get called a tankie who had undogmatic views. People will defend dictators like Stalin, then define everyone who doesn't agree with Stalin as "libtards" and then get upset when undogmatic socialist who get mislabled that way call them tankies.

Sure, as with every buzzword misuse cases will exist, but most peoples argument is that they use the term for "everyone on the left spectrum" so its is meaningless, but for them the left spectrum only includes tankies, and they just define everyone else as not left.

Facebones , vor 19 Tagen

Are you defending authoritarian policies of historical socialism alot?

Nope, but I do point out that most socialist countries fail due to direct US intervention, which is true but inconvenient to their narrative that socialism is a failure.

I have also been called a communist, but this wasn't meant as an insult but a description

Are you familiar with the American concept of the "Bible Belt?" It's essentially just the American Southeast, Texas out to the East Coast, up to mid-Virginia or so. (The confederate states, basically.) This section of the country continues to be hyper religious and hyper conservative. What I'm getting at is that in this neck of the woods, socialist and communist are used almost exclusively as slurs lol, for anybody who doesn't have an almost comical conservative stance.

Jean_le_Flambeur , vor 19 Tagen

Hm seems like the local discourse seems kinda f up. I can imagine the same for conservative parts of Europe. Still IMHO we should not let terms (mostly used in interleft discussions) get destroyed by the far rights low insight in the details of left politcs

Cowbee , vor 22 Tagen

I've been called a Tankie for suggesting people read Marx, and I have seen Anarchists called Tankie before.

It seems that it's just a way to left-punch from liberals.

theywilleatthestars , vor 23 Tagen

Tankies broke into my house and moved all my furniture half an inch to the left

eldavi , vor 21 Tagen

okay Ivan; go back to the gulag before putin puts you there. lol

Cowbee , vor 23 Tagen (Bearbeitet vor 23 Tagen)

All in all, "Tankie" is just the modern version of "Pinko!" I've seen Anarchists called Tankies, every manner of Marxists, non-Marxist Socialists, and more. It truly lost all of its meaning and is just Lemmy's Red Scare.

A huge portion of that comes from Lemmy.world, which is the largest instance to defederate intentionally from Hexbear and Grad, which has the presumably unintended effect of making Zionists and other far-right wingers feel comfortable in an Anticommunist instance.

commiewithoutorgans , vor 23 Tagen

Unintended may be somewhat true, in that nobody explicitly had that as a conscious reason, but it was an obvious result that they could've known beforehand. So I don't think it's useful at all to call it unintended. Just an easily understood and expected side effect

Cowbee , vor 23 Tagen

That's a fair enough critique. They definitely should have known what would happen, but this is more for the new users who came after defederation.

velox_vulnus , vor 23 Tagen

lemmy.world has comments in their community, where they call for the nuking of developing countries, when they read news of social injustice. By that logic, their 'civilized' country should be nuked thrice, because cartoonishly evil, rich scumbags like Jeffrey Epstein and their associates still have a free pass for raping minors in their creepy sex-dungeons.

Cowbee , vor 23 Tagen

Yep, it's disgusting to see.

GeneralVincent , vor 21 Tagen

I'm starting to realize one of the biggest issues with the fediverse is how much tribalism is going to play a part in interactions between instances. It seems like every instance is going to have some absurd stereotypes that get repeated as fact.

Some people in .ml and hexbear were labeled tankies, accurately or not, and now you're all tankies. And this post seems to be in response to that, saying the word tankie isn't even a real thing. And now we have comments suggesting lemmy.world is also a unified group promoting certain ideologies. It's the largest instance, we're gonna have one-off crazies saying stupid stuff.

I know it does makes a small difference being on .world vs .ml/hexbear. But most people in both are leftists if what I've seen is accurate. We're just being stereotypical leftist splintering ourselves into separate groups over the smallest differences.

Nakoichi , vor 23 Tagen

And apparently discuss.tchncs.de

Cowbee , vor 23 Tagen

What's their history?

Tankiedesantski , vor 23 Tagen

I'm doing my part im-doing-my-part

MrScottyTay , vor 23 Tagen

I've only ever seen people complain about them tangentially. Guess I'm not following the communities they usually pop up in

Cowbee , vor 23 Tagen

Lemmy is going through an Anticommunist Red Scare right now, particularly on Lemmy.world.

10_0 , vor 22 Tagen

Can't imagine why

Nakoichi , vor 23 Tagen

The fact that Hexbear polled more no than yes is so fuckin funny to me.

Dirk , vor 23 Tagen

Why does that instance still exist? Wow.

Cowbee , vor 23 Tagen

Why would it not?

Dirk , vor 23 Tagen

I've never seen any good content coming from that instance. Only political bullshit and fighting.

Cowbee , vor 23 Tagen

It is a Left-unity server, with Marxists and Anarchists alike. It is going to be political by nature of the instance.

If you don't care for politics, the Games community is very pleasant IMO, and if you're trans, traa is hosted over there and it's a very active community. Hexbear is largely self-contained and self-sufficient, there's more than just politics.

manuallybreathing OP , vor 23 Tagen

hexbear is officially anti tankie, I don't make the rules. RIP

CyberSyndicalist , vor 22 Tagen

Fuck tankies, Khrushchev should have nuked Hungary

vger , vor 22 Tagen

lemmy.dbzer0.com:

This instance currently allows new community creation, however the following subjects are explicitly not allowed as communities.

• No Tankie shit.

LittleBorat2 , vor 22 Tagen

They asked 5 people and they were smart enough to say no