CableMonster ,

This is how the government and government supported large corporations work. I dont even know how you think this is related to capitalism.

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

How a government in a capitalist country works perhaps. Certainly not how the government worked in USSR or how it works in places like Cuba, China, or Vietnam today.

CableMonster ,

America is the least capitalist is has been probably in its history. Just because it was founded on something that was quite capitalistic doesnt mean it still is.

Why not push for less regulations so that small business can thrive?

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

When you definitely know what capitalism is.

CableMonster ,

And you keep encompassing more things in capitalism than belong. Why not push for less regulations so that small business can thrive?

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

I'm doing no such thing. Capitalist competition necessarily leads to monopolies because successful businesses grow and as they grow it takes increasingly more up front investment to compete with them. On top of it they can just undercut small businesses or buy them out. The game of monopoly is a perfect illustration of how capitalism works. Everybody starts on equal footing, and at the end of the game one players owns everything. That's how capital concentration happens in real life under the capitalist dynamics.

Meanwhile, the government represents the interests of the class that holds power in society and passes laws in their interest. Under capitalism it's the capital owning class. These are the people who own the media, pay for election campaigns, lobbying, and so on. And it's not just me saying this. Here's what a study analyzing many decades of US policy concludes:

https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/1c59c017-2eb8-41e9-97ec-2f3ae412516e.png

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-politics/article/testing-theories-of-american-politics-elites-interest-groups-and-average-citizens/62327F513959D0A304D4893B382B992B

CableMonster ,

I dont like monopolies either, but what monopolies are causing you the most harm? Mine would be the governemnt monopoly.

I think you have fundamental mistake in that you seem to believe that the economy is a zero sum game but its just not how it works. The only zero sum game that I am worried about is the control of our rights with the governmnet.

What specifically is it that you want peoples lives to look like?

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

Government is not a monopoly the government is a management organization that resolves differences between capitalists. Meanwhile, if you can't understand how capitalist monopolies cause harm then you're beyond help. The whole climate crisis is caused by capitalist monopolies, just one example for you.

I think you have fundamental mistake in that you seem to believe that the economy is a zero sum game but its just not how it works. The only zero sum game that I am worried about is the control of our rights with the governmnet.

That literally has nothing to do with what I said which is that the economy works in the interest of the people who own capital, and these are the same people the government represents. You don't even understand what the government is apparently.

What specifically is it that you want peoples lives to look like?

I want people to own the means of production. I want all businesses to be run as a mix of state owned enterprise and worker owned cooperatives. The state enterprise is good at providing common things everyone needs like healthcare, infrastructure, housing, and so on. These are things that need to be done regardless of profit motive. Meanwhile, private sector that's owned by the workers is great at providing all the things where profit motive acts as a motivator. This isn't rocket science.

CableMonster ,

How can I opt out of the government if its not a monopoly? Its literally the only true monopoly and its on our rights and force.

When you talk about all the money doesnt just go to the rich, there is more wealth created and you have the option to accumulate wealth or trade it to others.

Do you understand how what you are advocating for will just make everyone poorer? When you say "Nu-uh", answer this question, for the people that work a lot of hours and work hard, what is the reason to continue to go above and beyond when our labor is being taken and given to others?

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

How can I opt out of the government if its not a monopoly?

Please learn what words government and monopoly mean before attempting to use them in sentence.

When you talk about all the money doesnt just go to the rich, there is more wealth created and you have the option to accumulate wealth or trade it to others.

Imagine still believing in trickle down economics. 😂

Do you understand how what you are advocating for will just make everyone poorer?

Workers retaining the profits of their labor makes them more poor is the dumbest take I've seen in a while. Maybe spend a bit of time educating yourself instead of trolling online.

CableMonster ,

No one believes in trickle down economics nor did they ever, it was literally propaganda term. Please explain to me why I would have worked so many hours or so hard if I didnt get the benefit of my labor? Simple question that you will not be able to answer because its why your ideal system never ever ever works.

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

You literally believe in trickle down economics because that's what capitalism fundamentally is. The boss you employs your dumb ass appropriates all the value that you produce, then pays you a small portion of that value in form of salary. That's the system where you don't get benefit of your labor.

Since you evidently don't understand the concept of cooperative ownership. That's a system where all the workers own the business together and share the profits in equitable manner. Meanwhile, it's pretty hilarious that you think communism doesn't work given that China is pretty much the only place in the world where the standard of living is rapidly improving. Meanwhile, it's declining in all the capitalist hellholes.

Can't wait for you to reply with another banger.

CableMonster ,

Like I said, no one believes in trickle down economics... and that is not what capitalism is. China isnt communism. Please explain to me why I would have worked so many hours or so hard if I didnt get the benefit of my labor?

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

You've already made it abundantly clear that you do not understand what capitalism is. China is a socialist country that's run by the communist party. Please explain to me how cooperative ownership means not getting the benefit of your labor. Be specific.

CableMonster ,

China is not, its controlled by a centralized party but it lets people do their own thing. I noticed you didnt mention Cuba as a great example of communism, "Because sanctions they cant get ahead!!!!" You should check out the vox video on how well their system works.

Please explain to me how cooperative ownership means not getting the benefit of your labor.

Because the harder I work it doesnt directly benefit me, it benefits all the owners. So I would not be incentivized to work harder or longer because I dont get the direct benefit.

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

China is not, its controlled by a centralized party but it lets people do their own thing.

How to say you have no clue how the system in China works.

I noticed you didnt mention Cuba as a great example of communism, “Because sanctions they cant get ahead!!!” You should check out the vox video on how well their system works.

Cuba has been fucked over by the US regime since the revolution dummy.

Because the harder I work it doesnt directly benefit me, it benefits all the owners. So I would not be incentivized to work harder or longer because I dont get the direct benefit.

Owning your own business doesn't benefit you. Just how dumb are you exactly?

CableMonster ,

China is not communist... You literally dont undestand what any of these systems are. All you do is insult and say nothing.

How does owning my own business not benefit me? I am one of those rich people you are jealous of.

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

China is not communist… You literally dont undestand what any of these systems are. All you do is insult and say nothing.

says the guy who's been flaunting his ignorance here. 😂

How does owning my own business not benefit me? I am one of those rich people you are jealous of.

Oh now I see, you're an exploiter scumbag who owns a capitalist business. Everything makes sense now.

CableMonster ,

China is communist, you can keep repeating the idea they are, but you are wrong.

I retired in my 30s using only my labor and no one elses. How does owning my own business not benefit me?

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

I'm not wrong, but you keep on believing whatever you want.

I retired in my 30s using only my labor and no one elses. How does owning my own business not benefit me?

I'm sure you did.

CableMonster ,

You can not beleive me, but retiring in your 30s is not impossible if you work really hard. Did you notice how you dont answer any of my questions?

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

What I noticed is that you have really poor reading comprehension because I answered your questions repeatedly. You just keep repeating the same nonsense over and over like a broken record without actually addressing anything I said. It's like talking to a bot.

CableMonster ,

Please quote what your answer was because I have not seen anything that relates to an answer.

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

An answer to what?

CableMonster ,

How does owning my own business not benefit me?

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

See this is what I'm talking about. Poor reading comprehension all around. I've addressed this here in detail https://lemmy.ml/comment/9575251

The boss you employs your dumb ass appropriates all the value that you produce, then pays you a small portion of that value in form of salary. That’s the system where you don’t get benefit of your labor.

When you are an employee, which is the vast majority of population who do not own businesses, you are being exploited by an owner such as yourself who steals your labor.

A business that actually benefits the workers is a worker owned cooperative where people doing the work get to keep the profits. Evidently this concept is really hard for you to wrap your head around.

Honytawk ,

Lol, you funny

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

lol, you ignorant

  • Alle
  • Abonniert
  • Moderiert
  • Favoriten
  • memes@lemmy.ml
  • random
  • haupteingang
  • Alle Magazine